tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1837176580996082182.post964493508844539450..comments2024-03-17T17:11:59.147-04:00Comments on The Stuyvesant Town Report: TA Telephone Town Hall MeetingStuy Town Reporterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05538426011607971633noreply@blogger.comBlogger132125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1837176580996082182.post-3514659399193721242012-01-12T23:56:18.564-05:002012-01-12T23:56:18.564-05:00Actually I now understand the mechanics of all thi...Actually I now understand the mechanics of all this a little better. My understanding is that CW will have to pick one plan & one plan only. The sponsor of the plan will then need to have it approved by New York State...that is, the plan will need to be judged realistic & credible. That done, the sponsor will then need to address the tenants and get signed contracts that show a commitment to buy. If 15% of the units contract (commit) to buy, the plan rolls ahead.<br />The role of tenants & the TA is rather minimal. However, if there is a lot of bad buzz about a plan, CW has to consider...is it worth spending all the time to get the plan vetted and approved through Albany only to discover that 15% of the units will not sign up to buy. At which point they're back to square one.<br /><br />So the buzz is actually quite important. In my view Guterman's should be looked at by everybody and questioned by everybody just as they should look at and question Brookfield's. That's how we can best understand where to put our weight.MBaaarnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1837176580996082182.post-27771954089770335852012-01-04T12:20:26.298-05:002012-01-04T12:20:26.298-05:00But hold on, this guy is putting up the 3 billio...But hold on, this guy is putting up the 3 billion or whatever right?<br /><br />so he's not entitled to make lots of money? ?????FEDUPTENANT#4566noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1837176580996082182.post-71299980911248932332012-01-01T21:34:56.708-05:002012-01-01T21:34:56.708-05:00MBaar,
That's why they have plan A & B. ...MBaar,<br /><br />That's why they have plan A & B. If they only get 4% on plan A, they accept 14% on plan B. Then they get to do the deal and sell the rest at market.<br /><br />That's why this deal is so quietly evil while purporting to be "fair."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1837176580996082182.post-31649456887746366262011-12-31T14:53:20.186-05:002011-12-31T14:53:20.186-05:00So far I don't feel the TA and Garodnick have ...So far I don't feel the TA and Garodnick have sufficiently enabled communication and discussion around the various proposals. And I'm concerned they may be backing the wrong horse.<br /><br />Over the next 20 years under ANY plan, as the rental apartments vacate they'll be sold at market rate. That's unstoppable. The more units that actually sell to current tenants, the longer this place might stay middle class.<br /><br />There's a legal requirement that 15% of existing tenants must indicate an willingness to buy for a plan to be accepted. The greatest incentive for any developer like Brookfield is to eliminate competition through any means (like getting the TA endorsement & political endorsements) and to work things so that the apartment prices get them as close to a 15% tenant buy-in as possible so they can sell the rest of the apts at market rate as the vacate (the more apts they have to sell at market rate, the more money they make). The only power the tenants have is to influence and somewhat control how the buyer voting occurs. Without out that kind of discussion and control, the voting might go like this: Plan A (higher price) - 18% indicate they will buy; Plan B (lower price) - 40% indicate they will buy. Plan B benefits more tenants, but Plan A will render more money to the developer so he offers more money to CW. So CW chooses Plan A. But if tenants KNOW how to control their vote, then the voting might go like this: Plan A gets 5% buy-in and Plan B gets 40% buy-in. This way CW has to go with Plan B if it wants to sell now because Plan A doesn't meet the 15% buy-in legal requirement.MBaaarnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1837176580996082182.post-32247163428075351962011-12-29T18:16:04.881-05:002011-12-29T18:16:04.881-05:00Ok,
You are using NOI - 110M to establish cap rat...Ok,<br /><br />You are using NOI - 110M to establish cap rate = NOI/Purchase<br />Price.<br /><br />Still, I dont see how competing bidders will bid more than 2B if they dont have the T's support.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1837176580996082182.post-10857116795567219272011-12-29T17:55:08.867-05:002011-12-29T17:55:08.867-05:00To: December 24, 2011 12:21 PM
The 1.8-2B figure ...To: December 24, 2011 12:21 PM<br /><br />The 1.8-2B figure is based on a rental, as fitch and others have<br />have stated, this was in 2010, maybe a bit higher now.<br /><br />Yes, the place is worth at least 2.75B if its turned into Condos/Coop, not as a rental. But how is another potential bidder going to do that, the TA is working with Brookfield and there is only one party representing the tenants, the TA.<br /><br />Also, is (110M NOI) a revelant number? Sure they can make 110M a year above rents but NOI is without debt service right?<br /><br />Last comment, I think you are hoping too much from this board, I am in RE and I dont know 1/2 what your talking about, (didnt know someone would lend on a 4 cap for this)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1837176580996082182.post-41011935361783030922011-12-29T16:37:22.928-05:002011-12-29T16:37:22.928-05:00Are you on the facebook stuyvesant town peter coop...Are you on the facebook stuyvesant town peter cooper village tenants page?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1837176580996082182.post-24974137476921651782011-12-29T11:51:27.119-05:002011-12-29T11:51:27.119-05:00-taxes if not abated could be costly--lets say 700...-taxes if not abated could be costly--lets say 700/month add mt lets say 600/mt--that is 1,300 month without adding your loan payments...if you are currently RS and paying 1,500 where is the benefit-- mt and taxes as well RS rent will always go up so that may cancel each other out..although i would find the investment appealing not such if the economics are in this caseAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1837176580996082182.post-88132184032505150802011-12-26T06:45:57.092-05:002011-12-26T06:45:57.092-05:00Has the sublet/ rental policy been discussed withi...Has the sublet/ rental policy been discussed within the buyout?<br /><br />Would we be buying into a place with sublet rules?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1837176580996082182.post-24681860814181884602011-12-25T18:43:22.459-05:002011-12-25T18:43:22.459-05:00Walking by the oval and overheard a guy telling so...Walking by the oval and overheard a guy telling someone that his friends were now looking to rent at pcv/st due to the fact that they'd heard there was the "buy" option coming.<br /><br />Definitely had me thinking CONSPIRACY. What a great way to lure new tenants.<br /><br />hmmmAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1837176580996082182.post-67044365030880584922011-12-25T12:47:23.793-05:002011-12-25T12:47:23.793-05:00You guys are on crack if you thing that the TA has...You guys are on crack if you thing that the TA has the slightest idea of how many buyers exist in their membership. No one knows that answer because it is unknowable. Just more hot air.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1837176580996082182.post-16239331533305839082011-12-25T08:27:50.376-05:002011-12-25T08:27:50.376-05:00Tom,
Very well said!
Is there a public record of ...Tom,<br /> Very well said!<br />Is there a public record of how individual TA board members voted?<br />If not, we should demand all future upcoming votes be transparent. I think for the record (the legal record) we should have some acountability for any future legal actions.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1837176580996082182.post-88429135534295393482011-12-24T22:41:25.938-05:002011-12-24T22:41:25.938-05:00Just been watching "It's a Wonderful Life...Just been watching "It's a Wonderful Life." Amazing that Old Evil Potter should be reincarnated in the form of Rob Speyer and his vile ilk.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1837176580996082182.post-38439858978316333972011-12-24T18:11:44.935-05:002011-12-24T18:11:44.935-05:0012:21 CW has other offers. I know this for fa...12:21 CW has other offers. I know this for fact. You are not alone in the RE world. FWIWAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1837176580996082182.post-46178291192374990812011-12-24T16:24:39.149-05:002011-12-24T16:24:39.149-05:00@12:07--Why are you still here???
Because I love ...@12:07--Why are you still here???<br /><br />Because I love my apartment and, most importantly, I have a very good rent. However, I try to avoid all other aspects of the project such as laundry, recycling area, etc. I've been here for over 30 years and remember it being a lovely place to live. I know that is over because of the greed of MetLife and the total destruction of the qol by the Evil Speyers, but I will stay until I absolutely have to leave. Still think it's become a nasty, seedy, student-infested dump that is beyond repair at this point and I certainly will not buy my apartment.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1837176580996082182.post-17323154454429278072011-12-24T16:04:07.937-05:002011-12-24T16:04:07.937-05:00I'm a big skeptic on this deal. That said, I&...I'm a big skeptic on this deal. That said, I'd be happy to "buy in" at the deeply discounted, limited resale rate--provided that the cost of ownership is about what I pay now. Not going to quibble about $50-100/mo more because we'll get there soon enough regardless.<br /><br />Happy to leave ALL of the upside to our benefactors at Brookfield. I hope they make a fortune on my place when I move in 30 years! Meanwhile, I'll be expected to shoulder the potential burden of maintenance issues and inevitable assessments. They'll get it in MCIs if we don't buy.<br /><br />There's no way I'd pay for the "privilege" of "unlimited upside." More likely to find myself upside down. If they really thought the place would be worth something down the road, they'd be PUSHING the limited appreciation units but, apparently, they are not. <br /><br />That tells you all you need to know.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1837176580996082182.post-7173087815245749452011-12-24T15:16:08.066-05:002011-12-24T15:16:08.066-05:00I suspect the fix is in.
I think that 12 out of ...I suspect the fix is in. <br /><br />I think that 12 out of the 14 TA board members do NOT believe in the goal that ALL the apartments here should be subject to long-term affordability limitations. <br /><br />That's why "choice" has gradually replaced "long-term affordability" as the most frequently stated goal when the TA and Dan speak publicly. <br /><br />That's why the TA's legal and financing advisers have zero (or practically zero) experience in affordable housing. <br /><br />And that's why our long-term affordability questions have never been answered or answered directly and adequately.<br /><br />Until these questions are answered adequately, I can only conclude that the goal of long-term affordability will be better served if the TA/Brookfield plan and bid are rejected.Tomnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1837176580996082182.post-14613468507411385092011-12-24T14:46:22.939-05:002011-12-24T14:46:22.939-05:00I would think that they wouldn't be able to pu...I would think that they wouldn't be able to pull off the purchase if all apartments were sold at the "deeper discount" and had their resales controlled. Someone posted earlier about hand wringing for the perfect plan. Perfection isn't going to come. All things considered I believe it's out best option. With this plan there is SOME level of future affordability, without it there is none.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1837176580996082182.post-60077376632851784582011-12-24T14:43:58.332-05:002011-12-24T14:43:58.332-05:00Long-term affordable program:
At the Baruch town ...Long-term affordable program:<br /><br />At the Baruch town hall, the TA via Meredith ? related two programs for tenant acquisition of units: (1) the insider rate and (2) the extra affordable rate. <br /><br />The insider rate would offer a discount to market for persons intending to acquire their unit without resale restrictions (except for a burn-off flip-tax).<br /><br />The extra affordable program would offer an additional discount to purchases price but would restrict resale by (1) amount unit can resell for and (2) to whom unit can sell to. Resale price would probably be marked to inflation (my assumption) and prospective repurchasers was marked to families earning 2x Stuy Town median income (Meredith's statement). <br /><br />At the town hall, Brookfield made an interesting comment which I'll paraphrase: so long as we can work out the finances, we'll look at the extra affordable proposal (if someone has the exact verbiage Brookfield used, it would be helpful).<br /><br />Moving forward to the phone-in: Meredith's verbiage was much more calculated. Again I'll paraphrase. She said that a number of units can be acquired at the extra affordable rate capped at an unknown number of apartments. This statement was a retreat from the Baruch town hall that said anyone who wants to buy at the extra affordable rate is welcome to...<br /><br />I can understand the retreat. Brookfield and the TA do not know how much it will cost to acquire STPCV. So they cannot determine how many units can be purchased at extra affordable rates. Another way, as the purchase price increases I will assume that the number of extra affordable units offered will decrease.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1837176580996082182.post-55844168534763921422011-12-24T14:39:30.742-05:002011-12-24T14:39:30.742-05:00The answer is that there is no entity, private or...The answer is that there is no entity, private or governmental, willing to pay off the share holders (3 billion)and gift the place back to tenants as a full RS complex in perpetuity.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1837176580996082182.post-59240439047127288872011-12-24T14:01:09.164-05:002011-12-24T14:01:09.164-05:00"I've been asking these same two question..."I've been asking these same two questions for 18 months on Lux Living, Lux Living Facebook, TA Facebook, at TA meetings, at TA advisory committee meetings, at meet and greets with TA board members, etc., and have NEVER gotten a direct answer."<br /><br />I've been essentially asking the same questions and still no response, either.Stuy Town Reporterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05538426011607971633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1837176580996082182.post-74000781606767123962011-12-24T12:50:19.731-05:002011-12-24T12:50:19.731-05:00I asked these two questions:
"1. Where's...I asked these two questions:<br /><br />"1. Where's the "LONG-TERM AFFORDABILITY" in taking thousands of apartments out of Rent Stabilization and converting them to unrestricted, market rate condos? <br /><br />2. Why don't we make ALL the apartments long-term affordable condos or rentals?"<br /><br />As far as I can tell from the T&V article, Dan Garodnik dodged the questions by saying the TA Plan is better than nothing.<br /><br />I've been asking these same two questions for 18 months on Lux Living, Lux Living Facebook, TA Facebook, at TA meetings, at TA advisory committee meetings, at meet and greets with TA board members, etc., and have NEVER gotten a direct answer.Tomnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1837176580996082182.post-85729979485240420872011-12-24T12:49:06.309-05:002011-12-24T12:49:06.309-05:00@12:07--Why are you still here???@12:07--Why are you still here???Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1837176580996082182.post-76998722004869301842011-12-24T12:28:01.259-05:002011-12-24T12:28:01.259-05:00I look forward to the opportunity to buy my apartm...I look forward to the opportunity to buy my apartment, and everyone I know feels the same way. It's the only hope we have to bring maintenance back to an acceptable level, and have people abide by the established laws of this community. Conversions have worked out very well in places that were far worse off than Stuy Town in the city. I also support the conversion as I am a supporter of affordable housing in Manhattan for future generations: something this conversion addresses far better than current RS laws.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1837176580996082182.post-33025991935758115832011-12-24T12:21:01.745-05:002011-12-24T12:21:01.745-05:00Some posters make statements and sell them as trut...Some posters make statements and sell them as truth. Please research your facts. And then reconfirm the first source with a second source. To say that the purchase price for STPCV shall be $2bln is inaccurate. Current NOI exceeds $110mm (a fact pulled from STPCV audited statement of 2009; of which I have a copy). Cap rates of NYC multifamily: someone will buy STPCV at at least a 4% cap rate (how do I know? because my profession is real estate finance and I could source funds to buy this at that rate).<br /><br />Minimum bid due is then $2.75bln. Expect bids much more aggressive than that since initial yield is not the price driver. Rather, value of conversion, reduction of equity over investment timeline, increased cash-on-cash return on equity, fee generated from ownership/management, etc will drive bids higher. Even Brookfield will need to earn a fair rate for its equity investment (they better. I’ve owned their stock for a good number of years).<br /><br />"I'm quite sure CW has other offers": When CW capital is ready to bid this asset, we will all know. Don't expect the TA or any other bidder to get exclusivity (unless of course bid is near advance value of note). Saying your "quite sure" infers you have inside info. If you do not, than your statement has no use (and in fact clouds the dialogue). I know the CW guys; they're not showing any of their cards.<br /><br />The TA should be able to bid a very fair price for STPCV since they have the best information re possible conversion percentages. Don't get hung up about the price right now. And certainly do not assume a low-ball offer will win this asset in a bid. Expect to pay greater than $3 billion. If we get it for less, than we should use that 'savings' to , in perpetuity, assign a good number of the units to affordable housing (or the STPCVTA defintion which they throw out as 2x median NYC MSA earnings).<br /><br />Also: CW needs to clear up the matter of Roberts in order to establish what the legal rents for every apartment in STPCV are. Only after this matter is cleared can CW begin to 'shop' this deal. Expect many suitors to make public their versions of conversion. Guterman was the first but there will be more. And don't 'believe' that the TA's option is the best offer for you. Require the TA to sell their plan to you as you would any other prospective STPCV purchaser.<br /><br />Let’s stick to the facts. And offer opinions on the facts. Then we can have a clearer dialogue about them. If you don’t know the facts, ask a question here. STR has been kind enough to spend a great deal of time and resources in facilitating this arena. Let’s use the site to enlighten one another and advance our community goals.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com