While we wait to see what develops with the ice-skating rink that's scheduled to open up in late November at Playground 10, it may be helpful to understand the challenges of building or putting up a rink. The info below is from the Custom Ice Rinks website and NOT meant to indicate exactly what Stuy Town will be getting, so please let's not assume that the challenges will be the same. (For instance, our skating rink could be a comical companion version to the now deceased mini putting green.) But what's below does make for interesting reading, that's for sure.
Private ice rinks are relatively new to most everyone. Here is useful information to help you choose the rink you want and to get it when you want it. Alternatively , please feel free to call Custom Ice anytime, toll free (866) 887-8840.
START EARLY - We get very busy with outdoor ice rinks in the late summer and fall. To ensure your rink is ready to go in November we urge you to book it before the end of June each year. Permanent outdoor rinks (in concrete) are typically constructed in the spring and summer so it is wise to plan far ahead. Lead times vary with season and are 8-10 weeks in spring and summer, but 12-14 weeks in late summer and fall. Call Custom Ice and book well in advance before it's too late.
DETERMINE THE SIZE - Custom ice will custom fit the rink to your available space and needs. While portable rinks can always be made bigger, permanent rinks cannot. When selecting a permanent rink, remember the kids will keep getting bigger. Portable rinks cannot only be enlarged; they can also be installed in concrete later. For families with smaller children (2-6 years), it may be better to start with a smaller portable "Roll-Out-Rink ™ and expand it later. Snow removal, ice maintenance, and installed costs are also important considerations when determining the size of rink best suited for you. See our "Choosing Your Rink Size" bulletin to help you compare Custom Ice rink sizes. We also publish some optimum size rinks that best match the refrigeration equipment sizes. Call Custom Ice for budget pricing or simply to help you decide.
FIND A LOCATION - Sometimes the choice is obvious, and other times there are many possibilities. If you are trying to decide the best location for your rink be sure to consider the following:
a) A more level area will minimize ground leveling and excavation work
b) A nearby or underground water line will reduce effort when flooding the rink
c) Proximity to a warming area or skate change hut can be important
d) Keeping away from large tree roots saves excavation work and prevents damage later
e) If space permits, choose a suitable location off to the side rather than overpowering your yard with the rink in the middle
f) Keep space on all sides for ground maintenance and snow removal
ELECTRICAL POWER - In smaller homes, older home or for larger rinks, your residential electrical service may need to be upgraded for the refrigeration equipment. Check with Custom Ice about the electrical needs of your preferred rink size and then have your electrician compare to what you have. Generally larger rinks require an electrical service upgrade and these costs can vary.
CHECK WITH THE CITY/TOWN - Check with your local municipal permit or by-law office. Every town is different, but you would typically require at least one or more of the following.
a) Electrical permit and inspection - for refrigeration equipment
b) Construction permit - for permanent rink floors
c) Building permit - for rink warming huts or change rooms
d) Green space approval - for permanent concrete rinks replacing grass areas
e) Environmental approval - if the rink antifreeze is an issue
f) Something else - its always safe to check just in case
MORE AT THE ABOVE LINK.
They just put a huge electrical junction box on the West side of Playground #10. This is clearly not intended to be a temporary structure.
ReplyDeleteThere are many unanswered questions regarding this ice skating rink. How much noise will it create whether with the mechanics of the rink or the accompanying music we must anticipate will come with it? How much is it costing to install and maintain and why is this money not being invested in much needed building maintenance? How much will they charge people to use it? Who will use it? Is it open to the “tenants and their guests” or to anyone who feels like coming on to the property? Will Rose Associates advertise it to people off the property? If so, how much will that cost? How much money will be spent on staff like Public Safety to keep an eye on it? How will the crowds affect the pedestrian traffic on the Oval?
ReplyDeleteI am growing very tired of the commercial use of the Oval.
Another issue, something that I don't believe has been mentioned yet: Lighting. The lighting that's at Playground 10 is inadequate for a skating rink if the rink is going to be open past daylight hours (which in the winter are shortened). So extra lighting will have be installed IF the rink will be open past dusk.
ReplyDeleteI am getting a HG Wells “War of the Worlds” flashback here. Remember the chapter when, as the townspeople gather at the field looking at the cylinder hole, while the Martians are busy constructing their war machines. They must be stopped. Now.
ReplyDelete“Send lawyers, guns and money. The shit has hit the fan”.
To the Stuytown penguins & guests:
ReplyDeleteThe primary danger in ice skating is falling on the ice. The chance of falling depends on the roughness of the ice, the design of the ice skate, and the skill and experience of the skater. While serious injury is rare, a number of short track skaters have been paralysed after a fall when they hit the boarding. An additional danger of falling is injury caused by the skater's own metal blades or those of other skaters. Falling can be fatal if a helmet is not worn to protect against serious head trauma. Accidents are rare but most common with collisions or pairs skating.
The "Stuytown penguins" Name of our proud new ice hockey team. GO Penguins!
Use this link to share your comments with the Tenants Association:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.stpcvta.org/kb/entry/37/
Maybe it will take a horrific injury to an innocent child to draw full attention of regulators and the City to what has been going on here. They just keep pushing the envelope a little bit farther each time with all of this Oval nonsense and, at some point, that will blow up in their face.
ReplyDeleteWhen it happens--and it will--we all need to be ready to shout loudly to let the world know.
Then the next management company will be ushered in. Maybe the third time will be the charm.
There is cause for concern on many levels: transmission of noise, zoning, and reduction in amenities for children. Here’s another. The development of Playground 10 from open space for free and spontaneous recreation for the children of our community sets a precedent and opens the door to further development of open space in our community. Send comments to Dan Garodnick and ST PCV TA today.
ReplyDeleteI used to ice skate a lot at commercial ice rinks and I seem to remember there was always a First Aid person on duty. He or she was always kept busy with cuts and scrapes, but occasionally some kid had to be carted off to the hospital. Isn't it mandatory that there be qualified First Aid personnel on duty? Are they going to have skate rentals too? This is just crazy. Adam Rose must have lost a marble or two! Who talks him into this crap? I wonder if Robbie said to him "Hey look at the rink at Rock Center. It's a synch." Robbie thought that running a 11000 unit property filled with people would be a synch! Even one of his own lackies said it hadn't occurred to him that, unlike office buildings, the property isn't empty at night! Sadly, Adam is showing the same level of intelligence lately.
ReplyDeleteJust a friendly warning about posts that insult--anyone. I'm letting a few "close to the border" posts through because the overall content is of interest, but I'm not going to do that much longer. Please let's address the issue and not any person.
ReplyDeleteIn keeping with the seasonality of this topic, when are we going to get some heat in this miserable dump? I already have had my space heaters (oil-filled radiators) going 24/7 for the past week.
ReplyDeleteAre they still using the Tishman Speyer "sensor" system that TS used to try to freeze out the elderly and infirm?
anaJust maybe it will be nice.
ReplyDeleteWhat a bunch of nagtive people.
Instead of fighting over every single issue. Maybe if you provide constructive ideas to mangement they will try working with everyones concerns. Just try for once.
Maybe it will be. I guess what most people really object to is that (much like Bloomberg), CW/Rose governs by fiat. There is never any community input or discussion. Ever! Maybe it would have been smarter to build this where the ping-pong players AREN'T playing in mid-winter, instead of on a much used, 4-season, central playground. Guess not as many photo ops then, huh? They really, really want their new "permanent Christmas tree" (elsewhere referred to simply as an evergreen) to feature prominently in each shot. How Lady Maya's opinions have more weight than those of ANY of us paying tenants (of all stripes) is a mystery for the ages.
ReplyDeleteThere is a WAY to be a benevolent dictator. When you make "your subjects" out to be no more than nuisances & a hindrance to your short term (always) goals, there's going to be friction. At least go through the motions of "caring" what the community thinks.
T-Shirt Idea: "Occupy Playground #10"
Excellent points. There's also a mystery element to many of the additions before they are actualized. It would have been better, I think, to have laid out everything about how the ice-skating rink will develop and, importantly, operate. Right now we know nothing, except that there will be an ice-skating rink at Playground 10. It could be that some of people's worries are needless; perhaps not. But at this point we don't know anything about the operation of this rink. Same thing with the rooms where trunks are stored. There's a mystery as to what the intention will be for their use once that space is cleared.
ReplyDeleteOff topic, but .... did anyone see the article in the NYT about recycling? One thing mentioned is that the Sanitation Department throws recyclable stuff that is contaminated with food right back into the general garbage. Given the state of our recycling rooms and the fact that so few people (especially the younger tenants from out of state) don't bother washing their recyclables and chuck food, etc., into the wrong bins, I think it's pretty fair to state that very little of our stuff actually gets recycled.
ReplyDeleteWhat CW and Rose doesn't understand, and what Tishman Speyer certainly didn't understand, is this community is not one to sit by while they have their way with us.
ReplyDeleteIf they think the stabilized tenants are vocal, wait until the market rate tenants paying through the nose speak up! They are the lynch pin in their plan. Mr. Rose would rather flame the fire of infighting to distract us from what's going on. We need to stick together!
Stabilized or market rate, we should ALL have clean buildings, washers and dryers that work, paint that isn't cracking and peeling, etc.
Poster at 1:10 pm: You said it! Now, if only the dormant TA would wake up! Do they hibernate?
ReplyDeleteI think the market rate tenants are much quicker to vote with their feet. When the increases become truly egregious--as opposed to somewhat egregious--they move on to greener pastures. My guess is that this is actually part of management's plan. After all, how do you know you have extracted the last dollar from your tenants until they start to leave? Once that begins to happen, you back off on the throttle one notch.
ReplyDeleteSo if nothing from here is being recycled, everything can go down the chute and we don't have to have rats cross our paths and see the pile-up etc. Right?
ReplyDelete@4:35 pm: Right! It is a total waste of time to recycle here no matter how carefully you wash your cans, bottles, etc., because as it is clearly stated in the NYT article, Sanitation discards recyclables contaminated with food stuffs. In the building where I work (a major skyscraper) we have to put all recyclable stuff in bins and be extra extra careful not to put anything wet or dirty (with food) in with it. We have the Green Stasi to watch us. We were told very clearly that if you fudge up and throw your teabag into the waste paper basket, then all the recycling in that basket is for nought. I don't throw glass down the chute because one of the building staff told me that when it goes in the compactor it sometimes breaks through the plastic and even while it's being compacted it can shoot splinters and hit the worker in the face. It's a pity that Rose doesn't have garbage disposal and recycling under control. It seems to be something they just can't master because it's a terrible burden on the environment for all that garbage to go to landfills. However, whether you put it down the chute or place in recycling bins, it seems that it is headed to the landfill thanks to our lazy tenants who dump grungy crap in the bins. I know people who work for Sanitation and they assure me that if a soiled diaper were to show up in the recycling, even if the rest of the recycling was pristine, the whole lot would go in the garbage! In fact, Sanitation workers really appreciate it if people rinse out disposable diapers in the toilet bowl before wrapping them and putting them down the chute - which is where they are supposed to go. Apparently, rinsing the pampers first cuts down on the amount of e-coli the san men have to deal with.
ReplyDeleteCorrection: my earlier post said that the article in the NYT stated that contaminated recyclables were reject by the San Dept. Actually, it was a comment posted to the article that said that. However, the commenter seemed to know what he/she was talking about.
ReplyDeleteI thought we were discussing an ice skating rink.
ReplyDeleteBack on topic please.
"I thought we were discussing an ice skating rink.
ReplyDeleteBack on topic please."
Sorry, Boss. Duly noted.
Another thing. I betcha that Rose has plans in the works that playground 10 will never return to its previous life as a true playground. I can see summer commercial events being done there as well. Wasn’t one of the more constant rumors that TS was going to build a rather tall apartment complex on that playground? And I know that Rose , this past summer, took over the playground for a private party (they erected one of those huge catering tents) for its brokers.
ReplyDeleteRose is just the manager here, so I don't know if he is the one that would make such a drastic decision about Playground 10. (A decision, btw, that I see no realistic chance of occurring.) There ARE higher authorities involved in this place.
ReplyDeleteSorry, didn’t mean to imply that Rose alone would build a huge housing unit on playground 10. By referencing that TS rumor, I was only trying to say that playground 10 always seem to be “in play” for one nefarious reason or another. Playground 6 is another playground that, like a Seinfeld episode, has “nothing” but would never (here’s hoping) be commercialized due to its location. Playground 10, before Met Life put in the artificial turf to spruce up the property for sale, was like playground 6, a playground that had nothing. Except it’s crew that once included Paul Reiser. Funny, Reiser played the ultimate evil yuppie scum, Carter Burke, in “Aliens”. Who knew.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.nytimes.com/1997/09/05/arts/be-it-ever-so-urban-it-s-green.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm
ReplyDeleteA glimpse of the Stuy Town Paul Reiser grew up in.
I had to edit this comment to let through a pertinent point in the discussion.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous posted at 9:19PM:
Before the push to market rate, and when the complex was 100% rent stabilized, the rent roll of ST/PCV fully covered operating expenses and generated a healthy profit for Met. These FACTS are freely available in the Bid Proposal package that was given to everyone involved. To say that this was subsidized housing is simply false.
I don't think a 5 year old bid package from Metlife accurately reflects the current economics of the community. Unless CW chooses to publish the financials, it's impossible to say what the situation is at the moment. I know many of us would be fascinated to know how things are going for the community. Presumably, PCVST is making some payments to the remaining lenders, and principal and interest on a few billion isn't cheap.
ReplyDeleteAdam Rose answers #1 & #2.
ReplyDeleteNew light bulbs?
Plants?
Come on sir...the pressing issue is the ice skating rink! Please let us know what's going on.
Typical politician.
Patience! I've sent Adam Rose a series of questions, including a question about the rink, and he is responding to them in order. I didn't start out with a rink question.
ReplyDeleteHe'll probably address the rink issue after it's built.
ReplyDeleteToo little too late.
Wow. Questions 1 and 2 were powerful probing questions. NOT! Couldn't you find a bigger softball to toss to Mr. Rose?
ReplyDeleteIt's not my intention to throw hardball or softball questions, just to explore the perspective and opinions of management. Some questions are "tougher" than others, but I think that all answers provide more information than we've known before.
ReplyDeleteTo the one person (or two people) who is/are writing insulting comments about my questions and Adam Rose's responses, you are very free to start your own blog (I recommend Blogger.com; it's free!), take the time out of your busy schedule to post regularly and monitor commentary, and proceed to try to get an interview out of management where you can play hardball. I truly wish you the best of luck.
ReplyDelete@Anonymous October 26, 2011 9:35 AM
ReplyDeleteYou're replying to an edited comment from a rather pointed post, aimed at what I felt was a very insulting insinuation by Mr. Rose that said we all had been living in subsidized housing, which I feel shows his lack of understanding of the history of the community, and a lack of respect for those who have been here for a long time.
I read both of the Rose responses and neither mentioned subsidized housing. Where are you getting this from?
ReplyDelete"We do not own PCVST. Some people seem to be confused about that. If I may, I would like to briefly provide some history to put things in perspective. As is well known, Stuy Town and later Peter Cooper Village were built by Met Life. They seemed to have done it more as a public service than as an income producing investment, but that obviously changed in the 1990’s. Pressure was put on insurance companies to earn more income, and those that owned real estate started to run them in a more businesslike way rather than as subsidized housing. Ultimately, it led to the sale of the entire property for $5.4 billion."
ReplyDeleteExcerpt from Rose Answers Part I. I guess reading comprehension isn't everybody's forte.
The full quote:
ReplyDelete"Pressure was put on insurance companies to earn more income, and those that owned real estate started to run them in a more businesslike way rather than as subsidized housing. Ultimately, it led to the sale of the entire property for $5.4 billion."
@Anony 11.34-I'll respond. It was from "Answers from Rose -2"
ReplyDelete"Pressure was put on insurance companies to earn more income, and those that owned real estate started to run them in a more businesslike way rather than as SUBSIDIZED HOUSING. Ultimately, it led to the sale of the entire property for $5.4 billion."
My upper case. I think Adam is confusing us with the NYC Public Housing projects which are “subsidized” housing. Rent stabilized housing is not "subsidized". Yes PCVST was and still (Roberts ruling) is a rent stabilized housing development. Once Met Lie, oh excuse me, Met Life become public , they decided they wanted out of the housing (not real estate) industry. I guess they wanted cash to play in the derivatives market (hah) and pay out mega bonuses. Then came the real estate bubble, fueled by the financial services too big to fail industry. TS (and the unfortunate underlying investors as well including unions) took the bait and "Whoomp! (There It Is)".