Fresh Direct Vending Machines coming to Stuy Town? Not yet, and perhaps never. But Rose Associates does have them at another property they manage. I don't believe the above Stoler Report Show has been linked before, but, even though it's over a year old, it still is of considerable interest, particularly as one of the guests is Robert Scaglion, Senior Managing Director, Residential Marketing of Rose Associates. Despite the coziness of the setting with moderator Stoler, there's a "close-to-the-vest" aspect to many of the answers from the participants, who want to paint a positive picture of their holdings and gloss over problems, while gently admitting to some.
Some money quotes from Scaglion:
"Amenities are crucial. It's all about lifestyle. People work very hard to be able to afford the rents that they are paying and they want to come home and be able to go work out or go to the lounge or do some other social entertaining in their amenity space within their own home."
"I think you're going to see an evolution in lifestyle spaces in these buildings where not only will we be providing amenity spaces, we'll be programing the events for them. "
And my favorite:
"People want services very convenient to them and food is a big part of it. Not many people are cooking."
They'd love us all to stop cooking and using up the gas they have to provide!
ReplyDeleteThis explains food trucks.
ReplyDeleteI love to cook. Wouldn't dream of buying food from those food trucks (yech!) and definitely won't buy it from vending machines.
ReplyDeleteThis explains all the stuff that's been going on in the basement of my building.
ReplyDeletePardon me but isn't "Fresh Direct Vending Machine" an oxymoron?
They need to make a decision. Is Stuyvesant Town for families or college kids? Nobody in their right mind is going to pay market rate for their apartment if it's situated next to a dormitory. Likewise, if security must be called constantly for dorm noise the children will feel harassed and the dorm companies won't want to house them here either. Which brings us to the lack of vision, leadership and responsibility needed to save this property. We're all screwed.
ReplyDeleteJeremiah’s Vanishing New York blog nails this on the head with the "Suburbanization of New York" link that’s on his home page.
ReplyDelete“It's a world peopled by 20-something interns who can somehow afford to split rents of $3000+ a month, who come to New York from the Midwest, eschewing things like walkups because living in a gated, fully loaded environment "is just so much better in so many ways. It's like living in a hotel. Everything's always convenient, always safe, always clean. You don't have to worry about gross things. Like mice! And creepy things like that."
"Says another 20-something resident of luxury housing, "It sometimes feels like I'm not in New York when I'm in the building... It's trying to have things that a suburban housing complex would--everything at your fingertips, where you don't have to leave [the building] much if you don't want. But it's not big enough. It's not big enough to do that. It needs a swimming pool."
http://vanishingnewyork.blogspot.com/2008/09/gated-new-york.html
I would think that Fresh Direct Vending Machines would be subject to challenge as commercial activity that violates the zoning restrictions applicable to the property.
ReplyDeleteOf course, that does not mean that Rose will not try.
Liquor store may be on the way on First Avenue next to Hane Sushi. A notice is posted on the door of the vacant space. The information below is from the State Liquor Authority website.
ReplyDeleteSerial Number: 1258673
License Type: LIQUOR STORE
License Status: Pending
Credit Group: 1
Filing Date: 10/31/2011
Effective Date:
Expiration Date:
Premises Information
Principal's Name:
BATTIPAGLIA, NINA
WEEKLEY, THOMAS S
Premises Name: TRE FIGLI LLC
Trade Name:
Zone: 1
Address: 338 344 1ST AVE
NEW YORK, NY 10009
County: NEW YORK
"It's like living in a hotel. Everything's always convenient, always safe, always clean. You don't have to worry about gross things. Like mice! And creepy things like that."
ReplyDeleteWho's kidding who? Nothing is convenient. Things are rarely clean and there are more rats than squirrels around here. The whole place has gotten more "creepy-like" by the year.
Where does this guy live?!?
@Anony 9.03 PM Sigh If you had gone to the Vanishing NY link that I posted, you would have seen that my copy and pastes were Jeremiah's take on what is going on in Manhattan in general. His article is not specific to Stuyvesant Town but pertains to a suburban/flyover state demo that is comfortable with inside amenities (and chain stores) that Rose Associates is promoting at their other properties. As we all know, this suburbanization process was started by Tishman Speyer and is continuing under the CW Capital/Rose reign with a vengeance. It is the basis for the concierge, the 4 Oval atrocities, the food trucks, the green market and the ice skating rink. It will be the BM for the vending machines as well. Like totally artisanal. Woo!
ReplyDeleteThere's only one reason these ridiculous food vending machines are going in. They cater to students. This is just like the machine that used to be in my graduate dorm.
ReplyDeleteAs if there arent enough rats in PCVST already!
ReplyDeleteWith the student inundation, food trucks, vending machines etc. Its become abundantly clear that the only hope for STPCV is for the tenants to take control. As distasteful as that may be for some, without it, CW, or any other corporate entity, will not stop until they've turned this place into a hot sheet hotel.
ReplyDeleteThe tenants taking control wont solve any problems. It will only transfer the problems to the new owners, the 15% who buy in. This 15% is sure to get burnt. The fact is TS overpaid and because the law allowed them to walk those left behind are screwed. Period. Anyone who follows the TA over thf cliff here will regret that decision down the road. It is not as easy for individuals to walk away and absorb the loss as it is for a large corporation. The only possible solution would be government intervention to lower purchase price so another buyer could take control with government oversight to prevent gouging. Why anyone would trust the TA after they sat back and did nothing as TS and Rose/CW raped and pillaged the community is beyond comprehension.
ReplyDelete"The tenants taking control wont solve any problems. It will only transfer the problems to the new owners, the 15% who buy in. This 15% is sure to get burnt. The fact is TS overpaid and because the law allowed them to walk those left behind are screwed. Period. Anyone who follows the TA over the cliff here will regret that decision down the road. It is not as easy for individuals to walk away and absorb the loss as it is for a large corporation. The only possible solution would be government intervention to lower purchase price so another buyer could take control with government oversight to prevent gouging."
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with this and have been saying the same thing for a while now. Recently a poster on the TA blog made the statement that CW will want to sell because the company is "hemorrhaging" with its ownership of ST/PCV. If true, the natural conclusion is that the tenants who buy into a condo plan, together with Brookfield, will also be hemorrhaging. That 3.5 billion debt is a lot of weight on anyone's shoulder.
"Why anyone would trust the TA after they sat back and did nothing as TS and Rose/CW raped and pillaged the community is beyond comprehension."
ReplyDeleteI'm never quick to defend the TA, but this statement is just baseless. What happened to this community rests squarely on the shoulders of MetLife who found a willing sucker in Tishman. The degradation in the QOL of the community is due to the 5.4 billion dollar debt, and the financial pressure IT exerts on the operation. CW only represents the bondholders. They paid the money and they're the ones hemorrhaging the money. You can't blame them, even though none of us like the end result. I really don't know what you expect from a Tenants Association that has minimal support from the residents, both financially and in membership numbers. They don't have the resources to fight on every front. It's pretty amazing that they brought and won Roberts, and as you can see, the "big money" is doing everything in it's power to stall a resolution.
STR,
ReplyDeleteThese new "captchas" that blogger is using are really, really hard to read. What happened to the old ones ?
"The only possible solution would be government intervention to lower purchase price so another buyer could take control with government oversight to prevent gouging."
ReplyDeleteThis is a perfect scenario all tenants would welcome, however it's likely to remain nothing more than an aspiration in a blog post. Meanwhile, the RE sharks are drawing up plans to subdivide, dorm-atize and conquer.
>>These new "captchas" that blogger is using are really, really hard to read. What happened to the old ones?<<
ReplyDeleteDon't know. I have no control over that.
"The tenants taking control wont solve any problems. It will only transfer the problems to the new owners, the 15% who buy in. This 15% is sure to get burnt. The fact is TS overpaid and because the law allowed them to walk those left behind are screwed. Period. Anyone who follows the TA over the cliff here will regret that decision down the road. It is not as easy for individuals to walk away and absorb the loss as it is for a large corporation. The only possible solution would be government intervention to lower purchase price so another buyer could take control with government oversight to prevent gouging."
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with this and have been saying the same thing for a while now. Recently a poster on the TA blog made the statement that CW will want to sell because the company is "hemorrhaging" with its ownership of ST/PCV. If true, the natural conclusion is that the tenants who buy into a condo plan, together with Brookfield, will also be hemorrhaging. That 3.5 billion debt is a lot of weight on anyone's shoulder.
Is it possible that the tenant's situation could be, hmmmm, well, just somewhat different? Perhaps? Maybe?
"tenants who buy into a condo plan, together with Brookfield, will also be hemorrhaging. That 3.5 billion debt is a lot of weight on anyone's shoulder."
ReplyDelete100% behind you, STR. I've been saying this all along. I have parsed this situation many ways, many times and I just keep coming to the conclusion that a second failure is at hand. The only question that remains in my mind is "whose hands?"
Getting back to that Stoler show, I have to disagree with Robert Scaglion that amenities are "crucial." Stoler himself introduced that discussion by mentioning the controversy over the importance of amenities to renters/buyers. In Stuy Town, the amenities are used by a small percentage of the tenants, and some amenities, as Oval Lounge and Oval Film, are ghost places when there is no planned event. Oval Lounge is a particular failure, as tenants just don't "hang out" over there.
ReplyDeleteReal amenities are functioning necessities. Proper security and peace and quiet. Until you have fulfilled these basic needs, anything else labeled an "amenity" is destined to fail.
ReplyDeleteAnyone here besides me familiar with Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs? Read up:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs
Basically says that as long as you are tromping over puke, listening to rave parties until 3 a.m. and don't have functioning laundry facilities accessibility to an ice rink and package delivery are completely irrelevant.
And on the topic of Stoler...we'd all be better off with Lieber & Stoller: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Leiber_and_Mike_Stoller
It's pretty amazing that they brought and won Roberts, and as you can see, the "big money" is doing everything in it's power to stall a resolution.>>
ReplyDeleteAre you sure it was the TA that brought Roberts? I thought it was a group of MR tenants who were pissed off at being ripped off who brought this action independent of the TA. Correct me if I am wrong, please.
These new "captchas" that blogger is using are really, really hard to read. >>
ReplyDeleteYes! The other day, one of them was Hebrew letters! My keyboard only speaks English!
As far as I know, CW isn't hemorrhaging money. They're getting paid to service the debt. They have a fiduciary duty to the holders of the first mortgage, so their obligation is to get the best price they can and to bring in as much money as they can until they sell the property. If they sell it for too little, the first mortgage holders could take action against them.
ReplyDeleteCan you compare the hemorraging of a 3.5 billion debt in rentals to a condo coop situation loan and individual ownership?
ReplyDeletei think not. They're entirely different.
Way to go NY. The state, city and Bronx hands FreshDirect a $127.8 million package of cash and tax breaks to stay here and this is what we get.
ReplyDeleteI look forward to the vending machines. After the Tenants Association forced the Greenmarket off the property, it will be great to have easy access once again to one of life's basic necessities - food! Of course food for delivery is only a phone call away - but I don't want to be responsible for making the call that results in a souped-up motorized bicycle delivery person hitting one of my neighbors.
ReplyDeleteYou guys just make stuff up. No one here knows the numbers, so why do we comment as if we did? We don't have the slightest clue what the rent roll is, nor the expenses.
ReplyDeleteAre you sure it was the TA that brought Roberts? I thought it was a group of MR tenants who were pissed off at being ripped off who brought this action independent of the TA. Correct me if I am wrong, please.
ReplyDeleteThe TA was instrumental in advancing the legal theory behind Roberts that was, ultimately, approved by the Court of Appeals and in getting the Roberts case organized and off the ground and into the legal system. The TA was not a party to the action because it did not have standing, i.e. the TA as an organization did not suffer a legal harm. The brilliance of the lawyering of Alex Schmidt and his associates in obtaining the Court of Appeals decision cannot be overstated. Consider yourself correcyed.
"As far as I know, CW isn't hemorrhaging money. They're getting paid to service the debt. They have a fiduciary duty to the holders of the first mortgage, so their obligation is to get the best price they can and to bring in as much money as they can until they sell the property. If they sell it for too little, the first mortgage holders could take action against them."
ReplyDeleteThe property is losing money on balance. Ascribe that loss to anyone you like! Negative cash flow is negative cash flow.
The bond holders are going to have the final say as to any deal. You really think that CW is going to make a decision on their behalf and suffer the consequences? You belong on that other site...
>>After the Tenants Association forced the Greenmarket off the property, it will be great to have easy access once again to one of life's basic necessities - food!<<
ReplyDeleteMy betting is that the Greenmarket will return at the very location it's been at for years. As for easy access to food, you have it at various points around the perimeter of ST/PCV.
"You guys just make stuff up. No one here knows the numbers, so why do we comment as if we did? We don't have the slightest clue what the rent roll is, nor the expenses."
ReplyDeleteYou would really be better served commenting on the conversion blog. They love to make up numbers there.
"I look forward to the vending machines."
ReplyDeleteAnd, speaking for your parents, we all look forward to your graduation this June.
"I look forward to the vending machines. After the Tenants Association forced the Greenmarket off the property, it will be great to have easy access once again to one of life's basic necessities - food!"
ReplyDeleteI'm looking forward to the day they put oxygen tanks in the lobbies. It will be great to have easy access to air and not have to breath on my own. Life's basic necessities - air!
"I'm looking forward to the day they put oxygen tanks in the lobbies."
ReplyDeleteWell, that would be better than the stink that usually emanates from my lobby. I'm all for it. Even an little Febreeze would be an improvement!
Can our gardner bring the fence forward where it used to be ? (Green market area) and plant some grass.
ReplyDeleteIt has become a dog poop & piss area. A real eye sore!
>>Can our gardner bring the fence forward where it used to be ? (Green market area) and plant some grass.
ReplyDeleteIt has become a dog poop & piss area. A real eye sore!<<
I agree and have been noting in the past about the horrid look of that area, which truthfully has a slum-like appearance. My guess is that the Green Market will be back there, however, which is why nothing is being done.
"Can our gardner bring the fence forward where it used to be ? (Green market area) and plant some grass.
ReplyDeleteIt has become a dog poop & piss area. A real eye sore!"
This is an issue that I have brought up in the past. No one else appears to think it's an issue though. Many are arguing to maintain the greenmarket, but no one seems to mind that the area where the food is sold is literally a fecal dump. Just sit on one of the benches opposite for no more than 15 minutes and see for yourself if you don't believe it. For the record, I like the greenmarket and would like it to stay if the obvious health hazard could be addressed. Until then, I'll be going to Union Square.
Are you sure it was the TA that brought Roberts? I thought it was a group of MR tenants who were pissed off at being ripped off who brought this action independent of the TA. Correct me if I am wrong, please.
ReplyDeleteFull story here in the NY Observer.
Here's an excerpt that should answer your question:
"...some members of the tenants association, by Mr. Grunstein’s telling, wanted to revisit the concerns their attorney had raised in the bidding process, as they were worried the high sales price would lead to rapid deregulation of apartments.
“We had a meting, and they said, ‘Can you do something about it?’ And, I said, ‘There’s this claim, let’s see if we can get some plaintiffs,’” he said..."
>>Can our gardner bring the fence forward where it used to be ? (Green market area) and plant some grass.
ReplyDeleteIt has become a dog poop & piss area. A real eye sore!<<
I agree and have been noting in the past about the horrid look of that area, which truthfully has a slum-like appearance. My guess is that the Green Market will be back there, however, which is why nothing is being done.
If they try to re-install the Greenmarket in its original, illegal location, Management & CW Capital are gonna have a fight on their hands. ALL ILLEGAL COMMERCIALIZATION OF THE OVAL WILL BE FOUGHT BY CONCERNED TENANTS.
"If they try to re-install the Greenmarket in its original, illegal location, Management & CW Capital are gonna have a fight on their hands. ALL ILLEGAL COMMERCIALIZATION OF THE OVAL WILL BE FOUGHT BY CONCERNED TENANTS."
ReplyDeleteI here you and I don't disagree. The fact that I like the greenmarket is irrelevant if its existence in its present location is a violation of zoning laws. Honestly though, I'm more concerned over the fact that the greenmarket food is being sold out of a dog toilet than the issue of zoning.
This whole place is browner, drearier and deader looking than ever.
ReplyDeleteBrilliant. It is something called "winter" here....or did you miss that on your way to forgetville?
ReplyDeleteFebruary 24, 2012 11:02 PM You probably weren't living here then, but I remember when the grounds were covered all year long with evergreens, ivy shrubbery and the like.
ReplyDelete"Brilliant. It is something called "winter" here....or did you miss that on your way to forgetville?"
ReplyDeleteInteresting how winter only seems to affect the entire property with the exception of the area around the ice rink. I didn't post the comment regarding the property being drearier and deader than ever but it's 100% accurate. Winter notwithstanding, there is no reason (other than the obvious one of it being a defaulted and neglected property) for it to look like this. Sometimes these "brilliant" posts need to be responded to.
It's not called winter. There's no grass. There's nothing. I'm not old and I didn't forget anything. I remember when it was beautiful here, even in the winter. And it looks worse than ever now. I don't usually answer ignorant wiseguys but I'll make this exception. I probably pay way less rent than you, too! :)
ReplyDeleteFully half of the grounds around my building is just dirt. All four seasons. When it rains, it's just mud. There's even a mud river that streams across the path with every storm.
ReplyDeleteAll of the greenery in one area has been allowed to wash away and has never been replaced. It's been years now. It's not a seasonal thing.
The huge piles of compost seem to be permanent, though.
" I don't usually answer ignorant wiseguys but I'll make this exception. I probably pay way less rent than you, too! :)"
ReplyDeleteLOL! That's the best come-back ever! The only thing that consoles me now that the property has gone to hell is that I know I am paying way, way, way less rent than all the students and other relative newcomers. Thank you for subsidizing my rent and keeping the lights on, guys! We lost a lovely, well kept oasis of green and tranquility when it became an ugly, scruffy dorm/slum, but we are not paying anything like you are to live in it! That is something of a comfort.
Stabilized and subsidized are two different things, wiseguy. You're the guy everyone hates. Easy to see why. Now you call it a slum and not "winter?" .
ReplyDelete"Brilliant. It is something called "winter" here....or did you miss that on your way to forgetville?"
ReplyDelete"Winter" doesn't happen on one side of the fence. Why hasn't "winter" effected the Oval Lawn 1 inch away???
Anyone with a brain can see they stopped seeding and maintaining the dog toilet so the Greenmarket can stage a comeback. The Greenmarket farmers should he honored to be invited to sell their food on ground soaked with feces and urine. MMMM!
"Anyone with a brain can see they stopped seeding and maintaining the dog toilet so the Greenmarket can stage a comeback."
ReplyDeleteI wish it were just the south end of the oval. There's bare ground everywhere. The stretch next to my building looks like Jones Beach when the tide comes in. Wet and sandy.