It's been another emotionally destabilizing year for Stuyvesant Town/Peter Cooper Village residents, with much of the focus being on the surprising news that the Tenants Association had partnered with Brookfield Asset Management to set the first stage of a condo buyout of the property. The debate, typically vigorous and with little factual information to chew on (the details of the condo plan are being worked on), captivated most tenants who have an interest in the community. Some became worried, some became angry, others suspicious, and then others were thrilled at the prospect of ownership. Whatever happens, one fact seemed lost: CWCapital, the current owner of the complex, has yet to respond to any forthcoming offer from tenants and Brookfield, and may well hold onto the property for a better deal in the future. So all the excitement, pro and con, could be for naught.
This year also saw the Department of City Planning clearly and unequivocally state the food trucks that have been parking at the Oval and the Farmers Market are not zoned to be in this area. The impetus behind clarifying the zoning at the Oval did not, unfortunately, come from either the Tenants Association or our councilman Dan Garodnick, but from online discussions among tenants and subsequent pressure put on the councilman to finally get to the heart of the matter. Which he did by presenting the situation to the Department of Buildings.
While it is understandable that a portion of tenants do not mind or even favor these commercial enterprises inside Stuy Town, the legality of the situation had to be made apparent and not remain nebulous, as, in the case of the Farmers Market, it had been for years. Worrying is that NOTHING was done until certain tenants demanded, and kept on demanding and demanding, an answer as to the zoning of the Oval. The overall issue is, then, what other illegalities, small or significant, are occurring in this complex that neither the TA, nor Garodnick, are looking into or even questioning. Oh, things like the years of housing "dorm" units in the complex and refurbishing apartments, with possible "extra rooms" (ie, pressurized walls) that may--or may not--be questionable in the strict eyes of the law. And we still await one more word on the ice rink, though this issue now seems to have evaporated. And how in the hell did the Roberts victory, which reverted previous market-rate apartments in ST/PCV to rent-stabilization status, not mean a significant reduction in rent? And when are the overcharges going to be returned?
With the TA and Garodnick's focus being now on the condo conversion plan, it is hoped that other, perhaps more crucial, tenant issues will not be neglected. Again, it seems, it will be up to the tenants themselves to be on the alert.
At the tail end of this year, we saw Lux Living close down his site and Facebook, which was a real loss for tenants, as both were very useful and important.
This coming year will see more battles, more uncertainties, I think. I do hope that finally this place will pick up in maintenance. Yes, it's gotten better, but when I see the T-Level of my building finally looking spic and span, with a new paint job, I will shout my hosannas.
164 comments:
"...one fact seemed lost: CW Capital, the current owner of the complex, has yet to respond to any offer from tenants and Brookfield"
The current owner has not responded because it has not yet been presented with an official offer, which will not happen for at least a few months.
Yes, I know that, and will clarify.
I wonder if there is any possibility that Lux will come back. His departure was so abrupt .
How are things getting better? It's 38 degrees out and NO heat in our building.
Lux left for a reason. He won't be coming back. You won't even see him post here again.
Really a shame but it was his choice.
It is unfortunate that you start the year deprecating the work of the TA, which is made up of unpaid volunteers who put a lot of personal time into trying to make things better.
First, as Fed Up noted, there has been no response from CW because there has been no formal offer to them. Yes, in the end, it could all be for naught. However, at least the TA has taken the lead in trying to gain control of the property and its future rather than letting the Tishman Speyers of this world try to turn it into something it is not - luxury - while harassing tenants, skimping on building maintenance and trying to milk every last nickel out of it.
Take it from one who was there, the letter to the NYC Department of Planning re the food trucks and the market was sent because the TA leadership, aided by the on line complaints, convinced the Council Member that a ruling from City Planning was the way to put an end to the controversy once and for all. In fact, it was a member of the TA Board who first raised the zoning issue for both the trucks and the market on the STR. All we can do now is closely monitor the trucks and the market issue and try to ensure that the zoning rule is enforced when spring comes around.
Also I see no acknowledgement of the fact that the TA has been vigorously opposing tens of millions of dollars of MCI increases.
You also seemed to have missed that it was the TA, through threats of filing for a reduction in services, got management to back off its efforts to close the trunks rooms and charge for key cards. Both of those actions would have violated the RSC.
You also forget that it was a letter from the TA to the Department of Buildings and the Fire Department that got those departments to force Tishman Speyer get permits for erecting pressurized walls and to comply with the building code in erecting them. Our letter caused the pressurized walls to be stopped for several months. While the TA would have preferred that the practice of subdividing apartments be ended, as far as we can see, the LL has a legal right to do this, provided the building code is complied with.
One daily illegality is operating golf carts and mini-trucks on the public sidewalks. Unfortunately, the 13th precinct, despite written complaints, takes no action to enforce the law. So perhaps you can stir up an outcry among those "certain tenants" to certain tenants to demand, and keep on demanding and demanding, the precinct to enforce the law in that regard.
In response to this post, I anticipate the usual outcry and crapping on the TA by the usual group who prefer to carp rather than pitch in.
Happy New Year,
J Roth
Where is the outrage about the condition of the laundry rooms? This is not a "luxury" complex and never will be unless those facilities are brought up to date. There are so many tenants who have their laundry done by outside services because of existing disgusting laundry facilities here. Many laundry rooms are also face to face with unsightly garbage and recycling areas. The audacity of management to ask market rates for apartments in buildings lacking modernization of those areas is infuriating. People who can afford those rents would choose buildings with doormen and pleasant, working laundry rooms. That leaves renting the apartments to multiple tenants and inviting more apartment division, more noise and dorm-like living.
Re: the TA. I actually did want to write something about the trunk rooms and the key card charges, but I wasn't sure if the trunk room issue was settled with finality. Has it been? Last I heard, there was a time element involved in the "settlement." I can amend the post. I also wanted to limit my remarks to things that occurred this past year, so that's why I didn't mention the Tishman Speyer pressurized wall issue or a couple of the issues you brought up.
Regarding the Dept of City Planning and the TA--yes, the TA got involved, but it seemed to me to do so after tenants, including yours truly, started making significant noise online about commercialization of the Oval. I belong to the TA, but I felt my effort here was an individual one.
Why are you so sure Lux won't ever be heard from again?
What was the reason Llux left? and why didn't he say bye?
Something must be wrong. Who does that without a goodbye?
The laundry rooms are gross because they are never cleaned due to lack of staff; the machines are useless, cheap, bottom-of-the-line garbage that were purchased by Tishman Speyer for the very lowest price they could get, although they charge more than the outside laundries with real machines; most of the people who actually use these rooms are the students who don't have a clue about how to use them and bung them up with the wrong detergent, borax or washing soda which solidifies and stays in the machines, often bunging up the openings where you put the detergent and softener; people use chlorine bleach because the washers are so filthy and inefficient and this results in others who follow them getting their clothes stained with bleach. The laundry rooms are a total disaster and I wish the damned so-called Tenants Association would focus on these quality of life issues instead of focusing all their efforts on buying the dump. The laundry rooms and recycling rooms are an absolute afront to every adult, responsible, non-parentally subsisided tenant. They give me the heaves.
The 13th precinct doesn't give a shit about the illegal golf carts, etc., that zoom around the sidewalks of the property. They do show up to harras an elderly long-time businessman who, out of the goodness of his heart, puts on a horse-drawn hayride for the children every Christmas. I read in T&V that some asshole complained to the cops that there were no helmets or seat belts for the kids and shut down the ride and just about broke the heart of "the Frenchman." I wonder if that same asshole has complained about the lack of helmets on the ice rink where kids can more easily smash their heads in? The 13th Pct is worth shit as far as I'm concerned.
"What was the reason Llux left? and why didn't he say bye?
Something must be wrong. Who does that without a goodbye?"
Get a freakin' grip man! He left without saying goodbye because that's what he wanted to do. Why does something have to be wrong?Lux was a tremendous asset to all of us residents and yes I agree he will be missed, but for god's sake give him a break. He wanted to end it so he ended it, let it go. Perhaps the TA should offer counseling for the grieving process.
Hit a nerve there eh dude? Why so angry?
Right. Sounds like you need to get a grip.
Why do some "Lux friends" jump down the throats of any poster who expresses regret and/or curiosity as to why he left so abruptly? I think these are the people he used to refer to as "hall monitors" because they were always so quick to self-righteously jump on anybody who said something they disliked, disapproved of or disagreed with. With friends like you guys, he didn't need enemies because you are always so ready to sew a note of discord and self-righteously attack.
"Get a freakin' grip man! He left without saying goodbye because that's what he wanted to do. Why does something have to be wrong?Lux was a tremendous asset to all of us residents and yes I agree he will be missed, but for god's sake give him a break. He wanted to end it so he ended it, let it go. Perhaps the TA should offer counseling for the grieving process."
Gee, isn't Lux Living lucky that he has you to speak for him, especially as he obviously can't speak for himself.
I'm going to stop letting through comments about Lux, as they are just back and forth, without end, and now a bit out of hand. The guy left. His decision. I'm sure we all wish him well and are very appreciate of the service he offered.
Is there any insight from TA or otherwise about the condo conversion and potential cost per square foot of apartments?
Homeless guy/vagrant/artist/street entrepreneur was going through the recyclables this eve around 5 with a vengeance. He was chucking bottles and cans all over the place. This was not on the sidewalk but in the middle of the grounds of the property.
Called pubic safety. They agreed that they should send someone over. Small victory there, I guess. The Toyota got there about five minutes later. Not too bad considering no one's life was at stake. Not yet, anyway.
So when the guy (ps) shows up he just sits there in the car. Now he's supervising the homeless guy/vagrant/artist/street entrepreneur's foraging through the recyclables! Lets him finish up going through all of the bags. He collects his booty and leaves the rest of the mess behind.
I guess we have to give the guy in the Toyota a break. It was a cold afternoon and, what with the holidays, a lot of people have to catch up on their Facebooking--mobile or otherwise.
Maybe the video will show up on YouTube! Check the tape, Adam, you'll see it...
One last word about LL, if I may: lux took on thr evil and heartless Tishman Speyer without blinking. Every time I see poor brave lady withCP who they tried to evict from her lifelong home I remember what consummately evil monsters he fought against and I wish him well and God bless wherever he is now.
Yes...let's all jump into the Manhattan real estate pool...just in time to catch a falling knife!
From Bloomberg News: Manhattan Apartment Sales Fall 12% on Waiting
Manhattan apartment sales fell 12 percent in the fourth quarter from a year earlier as Europe’s debt crisis and sluggish U.S. job growth dimmed buyer appetites.
Purchases of condominiums and co-ops declined to 2,011 from 2,295 in the fourth quarter of 2010, New York appraiser Miller Samuel Inc. and broker Prudential Douglas Elliman Real Estate said in a joint report today. The median price of units that changed hands in the final three months of 2011 climbed 1.2 percent from a year earlier, to $855,000.
“Consumers paused to see how things play out with all the information that’s coming at them right now,” Jonathan Miller, president of Miller Samuel, said in an interview. “Europe, the impasse in Washington over economic policy, the stagnant nature of the economy -- there’s a lot of conflicting economic news, and if you’re on the fence, maybe you wait a little bit.”
Financial firms globally disclosed plans in 2011 to eliminate more than 200,000 jobs as they grapple with market turmoil, fallout from Europe’s sovereign-debt crisis and concerns that U.S. economic growth will slow. Morgan Stanley told regulators last week that it may dismiss 580 employees in New York City as the bank cuts 1,600 jobs.
New York City’s unemployment rate was 8.9 percent in November, up 0.1percentage point from the previous month and higher than the national average of 8.6 percent, the state Department of Labor said Dec. 15.
“Job security is No. 1,” said Sofia Song, vice president of research at StreetEasy.com, a property-listings and data website that also issued a report on Manhattan apartment sales today.
Purchases of condos and co-ops in the borough fell 19 percent in the fourth quarter from a year earlier to 2,403, according to StreetEasy. The median price dropped 9.1 percent to $750,000.
“It’s just really reflective of the economic climate,” Song said in an interview. “The economy is really volatile and people were just paralyzed to enter the market.”
Three other reports also showed declines in sales volume and median price for the three months ended Dec. 31.
Brown Harris Stevens and Halstead Property LLC said completed condo and co-op purchases fell 13 percent from a year earlier. The median price slipped 6.5 percent to $785,000, according to the brokerage firms.
In the fourth quarter of 2010, sellers were in a rush to complete deals amid concern that capital-gains taxes for top earners would rise on Jan. 1, according to Hall Willkie, president of Brown Harris Stevens.
It “was our greatest year in history” in 2010, Willkie said in an interview. The risk of a tax increase “was very much a factor that did not exist in 2011,” he said.
Corcoran Group said sales tumbled 12 percent from the fourth quarter of 2010, and the median price dropped 5 percent to $795,000.
Purchases of luxury apartments, defined as the top 10 percent of all sales by price, declined 13 percent to 201 deals, according to Miller Samuel and Prudential. The median price of those transactions dropped 4.6 percent to $4.15 million.
To contact the reporter on this story: Oshrat Carmiel in New York at ocarmiel1@bloomberg.net
Sigh. Vast Rose Associates incompetence on a building scale (at least my building). The window guard and lead-based point hazard notice and the required reply (to the management office at 317 Ave C) were slipped under the tenants of record's door today, instead of being directly (as they normally are) mailed to the tenant. Each notice is customized for the tenant of record. The tenants name and address is preprinted on each reply form. My notice not only had the wrong name and apartment number but the wrong floor. I have called the survey hotline number at 212-614-5821 and left a VM (there is only a VM option, no operator will come on line) to tell them of this latest penny wise, pound foolish, notice strategy. My entire building will have to be redone. Very sad. The only silver lining here is that management will have to opportunity, in addition to inspect the apartment to determine if a child resides if the tenant does not respond to the notice, to multi task (LOL)and inspect “ dorm” apartments for the 80% carpet requirement ((I now, another LOL) because you know that these “dorm” apartments will not in any way frigging respond. By the way, how many true families do you have living in your building (I can count mine on one hand) as opposed to the rapid and total conversion of every vacant apartment to a “dorm” style apartment with 4-5 unrelated people, prime CW Capital demo age of 18-25? Woo!
To: Rich January 4, 2012 9:49 AM
The TA board and the Lemmings that follow them blindly, are already counting their unrealized gains.
Only an idiot makes an investment, where the “upside” gains have a limit and the “down side” risk has no limit?
Even a gambler knows his/her odds of winning before they roll the dice!
So Rich, I agree with you in makng the "don't try to catch a falling knife" analogy.
@9:49 a.m.
From everything I ever learned in school, what you describe makes this the IDEAL time to be doing this conversion, no? Obviously, if someone can't afford the mortgage, they won't be buying, but ostensibly, the price is supposed to reflect the current income levels, real estate markets and mortgage rates/availability. If this deal can get put together, this would be exactly the right time to do this conversion.
So, Mr J Roth, whom I believe is a board member of the TA, is on STR claiming that the TA was responsible for Dan Garodnick's letter to the NYC Department of planning? Perhaps then Mr Roth can explain why the TA allowed TS/CW/Rose to pimp out the place for years and then decided to respond at the exact same time the very tenants Mr. Roth and the TA purport to represent had to organize a rally WITHOUT the TA to get someone to act? Since, the TA doesnt represent me , I would like Mr. Roth to finally answer a question the TA has absolutely refused to answer for years now...exactly how many apartments in ST/PCV have at least 1 dues paying member of the TA. Does the TA represent 100% of tenants? 80% even 50%? Or is it more like 10%?
All that aside the TA did as good a job as could be expected (considering the law allows LL's to collect on MCI's forever) regarding the MCI's. Although FYI, anyone can fight an MCI. I didnt wait for the TA to act before I filed PAR forms.
I guess the handful of people who are affected by the keycard charge and the storage room are pleased with the TA's work there, but since this doesnt affect the vast majority of tenants it seems not to be such a big deal but Kudos for that. Personally, I would rather see the trunk rooms re-purposed for something more beneficial to ALL tenants, but thats just me.
In terms of the pressurized walls, the end result was the walls are up and staying put.
Finally, Mr Roth states that he expects "the usual outcry and crapping on the TA by the usual group who prefer to carp rather than pitch in." Does Mr. Roth think that he and the TA board are the only ones fighting against these things? At least Mr. Roth is kind enough to say the TA was "aided by online complaints" although it would be more correct to say the TA and Dan Garodnick were forced to do something after sitting on their hands for years while Rose literally made a circus out of the oval.
Trust me Mr. Roth (and if I can borrow your line) "take it from one who was there" other tenants are doing something else besides carping, including but not limited to, speaking with Dan Garodnick and other politicians (if for no other reason them to let them know that the TA doesnt represent all the tenants in ST/PCV), filing PAR review forms seperatly from the TA, raising funds for Rent Stabilization orgs., writing the 13th precinct about their lack of patrols in ST/PCV (which we did before the ice pick mugger, albeit all we got was a letter from the precinct's new commander, I still dont see patrols), reaching out to the Guterman people to set up a meeting to give the co-op conversion (which is clearly the better plan when speaking of keeping affordable housing) some tenant representation and currently reaching out to Tenants and Neighbors to form a new Rent Stabilized Tenants Association to protect our rights. Why does the TA claim that they and they alone are working to get things done? This is clearly not the case. However, it does seem like the TA and the majority of tenants have differing goals. Maybe if the TA just stayed the TA and didnt yearn to be owners then they wouldnt be lambasted so much. Just my humble opinion!
Poster at 4:26 pm, January 4: WELL SAID! VERY WELL SAID!
Oh yeah. LIke I'm in the mood for another decade or so of tishs, NOT IN THIS LIFETIME.
>>>”From everything I ever learned in school, what you describe makes this the IDEAL time to be doing this conversion, no? “<<<
>>>”No?”<<< Well NO!
The “Ideal time” is when the price is right! But if you read the article that Rich posted at 9:45 am, you would see that this may NOT be the right time.
With more and more jobs being lost here in NYC (the financial industry and the associated ancillary jobs), it stands to reason that there will be many more apartments on the market.
More apartments on the market (more supply) coupled with less demand equals additional downside risk.
>>>By the way, how many true families do you have living in your building (I can count mine on one hand) as opposed to the rapid and total conversion of every vacant apartment to a “dorm” style apartment with 4-5 unrelated people, prime CW Capital demo age of 18-25? Woo<<<
When I was a child growing up (in the early 70s, my family had relatives out in Belle Harbor in the Rockaways). To get to the "nicer" areas, however, you had to pass through the tougher areas where the old Playland amusement park used to stand.
And all along the oceanfront there were these large, now forlorn but likely formerly grand large houses. And I used to ask, "Mommy...who lives there?"
And the reply would be, "Years ago, those used to be beach houses...but now they're just flophouses. Transients and homeless people live there."
And the same can be said for similar places like Asbury Park...formerly grand, but now forlorn.
So...now the question is...do you want to invest in the Stuy Town/dorm/twentysomething flophouse?!?
For any successful conversion to happen, there has to be a serious attempt to bring stability back to the ST/PCV housing stock...and not to just turn a quick buck (if that's even possible in this economy).
4:26 "However, it does seem like the TA and the majority of tenants have differing goals."
The goals of all tenants I know are squarely in line with those of the TA.
"So...now the question is...do you want to invest in the Stuy Town/dorm/twentysomething flophouse?!?"
The answer to that is NO!
As to the TA's goals, I know many tenants who do not share the goals of the TA, not that achieving the TA's goals have ever been clearly explained to us.
"The goals of all tenants I know are squarely in line with those of the TA."
January 5, 2012 1:11 PM
The reality is that there are something like 25,000 people living here and if you know two dozen of them, that would be a lot.
You may or may not be right but you clearly have no idea of where 99% of the tenants "line up."
To: Rich
@ 1:11 >>>"The goals of all tenants I know are squarely in line with those of the TA.">>>
I told you! Lemmings
Lemmings will walk off the cliff following the TA.
But, the TA is wearing golden parachutes.
Just an FYI, great letter to the editor in the 1/5/12 T&V regarding the Farmer’s Market, the title of the letter is “ Issue is zoning, not zucchini”
http://town-village.com/2012/01/05/letters-to-the-editor-january-5/
"Only an idiot makes an investment, where the “upside” gains have a limit and the “down side” risk has no limit?"
Just curious, just how exactly is there no downside limit? Also, if you choose the option where there are no resale restrictions just how exactly ARE there upside restrictions?
Lunatic Fringe
Only an idiot would make a stupid statement starting with idiot. GENIUS.
There will most likely be an "up-side" restriction, both in minimum years that you have to hold on to your apartment and in the % of gains that you can make depending on how long you own your apartment.!
All the while;
Your taxes will constantly be going up. Your maintenance fee's/ monthly carrying charges will be going up (look at the quality of services now, are you willing to settle for poor maintenance, dirty buildings? of course not! Once you own your apartment you would want better services which means more porters, more maintenance people and better quality of employees.
These building have not been maintained very well in the past ~ 10 years.
I urge people to do their own due diligence by hiring their “own” engineer before buying into any TA/Brookfield engineering report.
All of the above means more and more yearly expresses!
With thousands of jobs being lost in the financial industry and no jobs on the horizon to replace those lost jobs, translates into less demand for apartments (just look at the number of apartments here that have been turned into "dorm" style apartments). More supply coupled with less demand (for NON-luxury apartments) with ever escalating costs could very well mean your apartment may be worth less in the future.
Upside limit, un-limited downside risk!
It's a broken "risk/reward" model in my opinion!
The downside limit is "only" limited to your total investment....just like a stock loss is only limited to 100% of your investment. And as anyone who's been totally wiped out in the market knows, a 100% loss is pretty tough to swallow!
I also find it more than a bit alarming that several people while discussing their potential real estate investment in ST have remarked "Well...I can always mail the keys back and walk away!"
As recent history has shown, simply walking away from a mortgage is not a painless or effortless process...unless your TS and you stick all the other suckers with the tab, that is! Walking away from a mortgage is still a big deal.
And call me old fashioned, but going into an investment with the "I can just leave" attitude is kinda like telling your fiance the night before the wedding...well, if you don't work out, I'll just dump you at the curb! Not exactly a good attitude to have going in.
I can hear the people underneath us sneeze, talk and scream. They yell a lot. We have carpets.
Are these buildings defective? what the hell?
Lately (past month) massive renovations going on inour building, i think the men said 8-10. AT THE SAME time.
why the sudden renovations after years of emptiness?
>>I can hear the people underneath us sneeze, talk and scream. <<
We have a "screamer" who lives above us...and we even know what she likes her boyfriend to do to her.
It's like having audio Playboy...without the magazine!
Ah...the joy of thin walls/floors!
I am the original Fed Up Tenant on this blog and I would appreciate it if all you other, new "Fed Up Tenants" out there would choose something else to call yourselves so there is no confusion. C'mon, how about a little originality on your parts?! Thank you!
>>"Only an idiot would make a stupid statement starting with idiot. GENIUS."<<<<
Above we have an example of, English as a Second Language!
I think anon 9:04 and Rich bring up some important points and I believe we have to look at this conversion carefully. I do believe, however, that the outcome will be a positive one. As far as the upside restrictions are concerned, the flip tax is something for all of our benefit and is an attempt to discourage immediate sales after the conversion so as to maintain stability in the community. This flip tax will dissipate over time and eventually be eliminated. While it is collected the proceeds go back to the condo association. If this is the example of upside restriction than it certainly won't affect a person like me who will be here at least another 10 years. I think most people plan on staying a while.
As far as taxes and maintenance charges going up, well how about our yearly rent increases on top of rent increases (compounding). Let's not even begin to talk about the MCI's they're going to try to ram down our throat. I;ll choose the later option every day of the week (we're probably going to get tax abatements anyway).
Also, Meredith mentioned that they will give us two years to make a decision as to whether or not we want to buy in after the conversion. This is unprecedented. Do you really think this place is going to remain the dump that it currently is with rule breaking running rampant after the conversion? They realize people will be watching and deciding whether or not to buy their units during those 24 months.
Since Adam Rose reads these posts, I and I'm sure many other tenants would like him to tell us what constitutes SUFFICIENT FLOOR COVERING here.
I am sick of hearing the footsteps of the people who live above me, especially after 11PM. I requested a floor inspection, which was done a year ago, but I think that what Management finds acceptable and what should be - and used to be - acceptable are two very different things. If the pictures in the marketing ads are any indication, then I fear that I will never be able to go to sleep again and not be woken up by the footfalls of the tenants above me.
Mr. Rose, we tenants would like to hear from you on this serious issue? If you care about QOL issues here, this is one that you should get on immediately.
http://www.facebook.com/groups/358760671689/
Interesting how the ice skating rink issue disappeared once residents saw that, contrary to predictions, it was NOT a nuisance or noisy, did not attract menacing outsiders, and, in fact, has proven to have an almost family-like atmosphere, with skaters of all ages.
As far as rent reduction? Mine went down almost $800. Can't complain.
I could comfortably. Afford. To buy my apartment, but so long as Stuytown is used as a dorm I won't even entertain the thought. Get rid of the students and then approach us about purchasing.
Only an idiot would make a stupid statement about ESL. Try doing a spell check and turn caps off.
Sad little troll.
Above we have an example of, English as a Second Language!
^^^^^
Probably a good idea to buy a grammar checker program. Spare no expense.
to:
>>"Get rid of the students and then approach us about purchasing."<<
They can't get rid of the students because there is no one else knocking on the rental doors to move into this dump!
You have to ask why are students the only ones they can attract to rent here?
You have to ask how will that change once you own your apartment? If they can't fill the apartments with middle class family's, how will they sell the apartments to middle class family's? Once you buy your apartment, who do you think will be knocking on your door to buy your apartment when you want to sell? Students? NO! WHo will be buying your apartment when you want to sell?
The buildings are institutional looking, poorly maintained, dirty, and can not attract middle class renters (as can be seen my the large number of students). The population here is becoming more and more of a transient population.
The quality of tenants here will continue to go down along with your investment.
From 12:45 am: sorry about the wired punctuation. Still trying to work out how to jtype on this dang iPad that Santa brought me!
The ice skating rink is ok but it took away a popular and free playground. The rink disappeared as an issue when Lux Living disappeared. The fact remains that they're doing a lot of commercial things on residential property and they're getting away with it because no one's fighting it. It's not the green market, it's not the rink, it's is it legal and if it's not, why can they get away with it?
Once you buy your apartment, who do you think will be knocking on your door to buy your apartment when you want to sell? Students? NO! WHo will be buying your apartment when you want to sell?
I disagree. I think that families or residents who want a community and plan to stay for a WHILE will buy. They want to own. IME, there's more stability in owning. Not paying a LANDLORD. Having some control.
If things here continue to run as they are, there will inevitably be more students, more transients. Eventually you can just slap NYU on all buildings. Here in dorm 20th street (literally) we are FULL of students. Every month there are more and more coming in. Our floor is all students or under age 25. All are shares and walls up.
Re: The Ice Rink;
I'd like to think that the public outcry over the project led Rose to temper the negative effects of the rink by putting up soundproofing, limiting the hours of operation, turning down the music and restricting access to residents only. I'm not happy that they turned a free (and popular) playground into one that require an admission charge, just like they did with all the other "Amenities". I'd certainly advocate that all of the above be made free to ALL residents if the development is converted.
Just a reminder: All the things that Meredith Kane and TA have outlined about their plan are only suggestions to Brookfield, not definites. And the lawyers and the TA may be putting forward some of these options in order to have bargaining chips. I'm referring to the possibility of selling some apartments at a lower price with limits on resale, having two years to decide whether to buy, giving buyers the option to purchase an apartment other than their own, etc. It all may be negotiable, and we shouldn't take anything that's been put forward as written in stone.
to: SICKOFTHEBShere
>>>"there will inevitably be more students, more transients."<<
There are more and more students and transients here because they cant find long-term renters!
All the while they try new tricks, but nothing they do are pulling in the long-term renters.
How much more can they do, Green Markets, food trucks, Ice skatting rinks, gym, they cant make this place atractive at Market Rates to middle class familes. They can try to lower thier rents, that would work. But then again, your apartment would be worth less.
Good luck with this.
Apparently, for most of you, anyone under 40 is a "student." I have news for you: the building I previously lived in had regular turnover also. That is what apartment buildings have. Some of you are used to locked-in neighbors who only leave in an ambulance, but that is not what the rest of Manhattan experiences. It is strange that you continue to harp on this....as if anyone can turn back the clock.
Need some info:
Is it true that one of the required fire codes for school dorms must have over head water sprinklers installed?
RSVP
I have been here for 30 years and there has always been turnover because people move on in their lives. Not everyone leaves in an ambulance or hearse! However, the rate of moving today is like a hotel and that is not good for the community or the value of the property, people often do not stay longer than a few months at best. Some stay just weeks. Roommates come and go all the time. It is hard to call a lot of today's occupants "tenants" in the true sense of the word.
There are more and more students and transients here because they cant find long-term renters!
"All the while they try new tricks, but nothing they do are pulling in the long-term renters.
How much more can they do, Green Markets, food trucks, Ice skatting rinks, gym, they cant make this place atractive at Market Rates to middle class familes. They can try to lower thier rents, that would work. But then again, your apartment would be worth less.
Good luck with this."
They can't find long term renters because families don't want to spend ridiculous amounts of money in rent to live in a transient dump. That's the whole point of the conversion. Clean the place up, enforce rules etc.
If you make it habitable they will come! This is not the first time something like this was undertaken. Tudor city and the grand street co-op conversions went very well. I agree it's hard to envision this right now because the place is indeed a dump. I'm going to try to remain positive.
January 8, 2012 8:00 PM
No one can turn back the clock. That's why Stuyvesant Town is just a shell of what it used to be when it was a clean, well-maintained family-oriented community. What happened in the rest of Manhattan wasn't what happened here. The peaceful Oval is gone, Rose's year-round circus is in town. It's not anything that it once was. Tenants would now settle for clean and well-maintained buildings with rodent-free, decent laundry rooms. Is that too much to ask?
feDUPTENANT said...
http://www.facebook.com/groups/358760671689/
January 7, 2012 11:17 AM
feDUPTENANT, I do wish you would pick a different name - NOT JUST A DIFFERENT SPELLING OF MY NOM DE PLUME!
I am aware of the TA's Facebook page. I do not post there, however, since the TA will not let you do so using a pseudonym, which is how I prefer to post.
Over and above that, tenants, including myself, would like to hear directly from head management honcho, Adam Rose - who reads this blog and, occasionally responds here - on the floor covering issue.
I do know how to reach Adam Rose by email since he has given out his email address several times (adam@rosenyc.com), but it would be helpful if he responded publically so that everyone can hear what he has to say about the inadequate floor covering that his Management team permits tenants to put down on their floors.
Mr. Rose, tenants would like to hear from you on this important QOL issue. Do you actually believe that making new tenants adequately cover their floors would really discourage them from renting here? You could make this ongoing QOL issue substantially go away if your team required - and enforced - the adequate flooring rule in everyone's lease.
@1/8 10:02
LOL I'm not leaving in an ambulance! I'm leaving in a body bag, maybe 50 years from now! Maybe more, wise guy.
To all those complaining about the "transients" and "Students":
Because Manhattan is so expensive it only really has three kinds of residents today: Super wealthy who live in condos and co-ops, young people who put up walls and cram into apartments they could not afford on their own, and those luckily enough to have a rent controlled apartment.
Middle class families simply can not afford to reside in Manhattan anymore.
Your choice is between maintaining STPCV as a rental unit and living among the "transients" or converting to condos and living with upper class families. Pick one because the 60s and 70s aren't coming back. Deal with it.
My vote is for conversion because rent control will not be around forever.
Anon January 8, 2012 10:02 PM,
Perhaps you will not be leaving in an ambulance but I suspect that many, if not most, of us would be happy to see you leave in a moving truck.
Now get going, it's time for class! And you could use some...
If Adam Rose is reading...two words:
1. Grass
2. Ivy
And a suggestion: fire the current landscaping savant/idiot.
The place had indestructible grass and ivy for 50 years until the Tishman lunatics took over the asylum and started planting forests...and ripping out the grass. Let's go back to care-free indestructible greenery!
And one last thing, can we pick up leaves less than 6 months after they actually fall from the trees?
Threesome update...the kids across the way were going at it again the other night...same bat time, same bat channel.
Meanwhile, my wife and I were watching PBS..something about birds in New Zealand...[sigh]
Ah...to be young again!
And PS...this is all happening in a converted 1 BR (with the fake wall in the living room)...so I'm wondering if the third member of the trio is the other roommate...or just a guest?!?
And now back to our regularly scheduled ST programming...
FYI, Anony’s 3.51 PM dorm apartment sex post was the 69th in this thread. “69 is divine, 69 is divine!”
On a serious note, the dormatization of PCVST is THE major QOL issue here. Some much evil flows from this. I believe this now rises to a planned landlord harassment against long term tenants since EVERY f*****g vacant apartment is now becoming a dorm apartment. And to the clown who is thinks that we think anyone under 40 is a “student”, there are lots of just post college 20 something transients who pack themselves into these apartments here as well, renting out “shares”, soliciting new roommates all the time. This is also happening in other parts of Manhattan at a rapid pace. It the Bloomberg/NYU/Columbia/Wall Street/Tourist colonization of this borough.
to : Rummaged
>>>"Your choice is between maintaining STPCV as a rental unit and living among the "transients" or converting to condos and living with upper class families.<<<"
That's pretty funny "upper class families".
LOL Either you are a real funny person or your standards are really very low.
“Upper Class” do not buy apartments with one bathroom!
“Upper class” do not buy apartments that do not have a doorman!
“Upper class” do not buy apartments with filthy laundry rooms and broken machines!
“Upper class” do not buy apartments with filthy hall ways!
“Upper class” do not by apartments in institutional looking buildings that resemble a prison or housing for the criminally insane!
There is NOTHING “UPPER CLASS” about STY Town!
Due to Sty Town’s age, and the architects/designers original intent, this place will never attract the “Upper Class”
Which is fine, I am very PROUD to be classified as the working, middle class.
I just hope you don’t by your apartment with the idea that Upper Class family’s will be knocking on your door offering you millions for the chance to live here. It's not going to happen.
I hope you are paying attention to the amount of jobs that are being lost year after year in NYC.
I hope that you are paying attention to the dwindling tax base that NYC is facing due to jobs leaving/disappearing from NYC.
Just yesterday there were as an article that people employed in the financial industry are receiving 30% cuts in their bonuses (I know what some will say, who cares about them).
The financial industry is the largest single industry in NYC.
All of this puts more of a burden on us, (you, my longtime neighbors, and myself), “The Middle Class”.
This is, indeed, Adam Rose. We require adequate carpeting in compliance with the lease. Every new tenant has their apartment inspected for lease compliance, and we take vigorous steps to enforce this rule and to prevent excessive noise including a program of escalating enforcement. I have asked some residents repeatedly to CALL PUBLIC SAFETY every time a neighbor has a loud party, smokes illegal substances that can be smelled from the hallway, or has constantly changing occupants. Some people follow this request and experience positive results. Others ignore the request with some kind of lame excuse, and they do not get results. I am not sure what else I can say other than “please use the system as it is designed.” I spoke to a tenant today who explained to me that he gently confronts his neighbor when they disturb him. BUT IF EACH APARTMENT THAT SURROUNDS A NOISE MAKER does that, say, once per month, and there are 4-6 neighbors that are being disturbed but no one is willing to call Public Safety, how can we be held responsible? And each neighbor that tries to handle it themselves is just delaying our accumulating the information with which we can take legal action. Does this make sense? Once again, I ask that tenants who are disturbed by neighbors are to call PUBLIC SAFETY. If that does not work, email me directly and I will personally supervise the case. My email is adam@rosenyc.com. Thank you.
Adam,
I appreciate your willingness to work with tenants on noise issues, but I must tell you that the policy of calling Public Safety to verify complaints is simply impractical and inefficient. It is only effective when a tenant(s) create a sustained disturbance and unfortunately, most often the noises that are most intrusive are transient, like walking back and forth on uncarpeted floors while wearing shoes, or dropping things on those same unprotected floors. We experienced consistent sleep disturbances by our upstairs neighbors who would come home from the bars regularly at 2, 3 or 4 in the morning, walk around the hallway and bedrooms for 10 or 15 minutes, wake us up, and by the time we could rouse ourselves from bed, call Public Safety and have them respond, the problem would have gone away. We would be sleep deprived, but couldn't prove a thing. These situations happen time and time again, be they caused by loud talking late at night, or music or whatever. The fact of the matter is that unless tenants are educated STRONGLY and effectively when they move into ST or PCV about how to conduct themselves as good, considerate neighbors, they will not (in many cases) even be aware that they're acting inappropriately.
And as far as developing good relations with your new neighbors, I would often go upstairs and nicely explain all the fine details about sound traveling down to our apartment, but if this resulted in a bit of relief, it usually would only last until the NEW roommate moved in 6 months later, and we would be back to square one.
We wouldn't recommend that anyone rent or buy an apartment in ST as long as there is such disrespect in general from people towards their neighbors right to live in peace and quiet, nor from a management firm that refuses to enforce reasonable rules about quality of life, as Rose Associates has done with their dog policy, bike policy, commercial event use of common areas and by having their utility vehicles driven all over the property recklessly and illegally.
You can pay lip service to all of these issues, but the fact is that they barely existed under MET, but became and remain real problems for the community since the desperate scramble to collect market rate rents for middle class housing became the goal.
Thank you Adam
I can vouch from personal experience that Adam Rose does follow through. There used tobe a lovely person named Renee Riley who followed the complaints, but unfortunately she left the organization. Hopefully she has been replaced by someone equally qualified.
Mr. Rose,
Thank you for the response.
Just a suggestion: You might want to revise the rule that Security MUST come into the person's apartment who is calling to complain about noise coming from an adjacent apartment to make sure they are telling the truth. For one thing, some nights I don't call Security at 1:00 AM because my husband has health problems, and we are unable to get dressed for Security to enter our apartment in the middle of the night. Although I sort of understand the need to have Security have some sort of "proof," nobody is going to waste their time alerting Security in the middle of the night if the noise wasn't unbearably LOUD. When we've called Security in the past for neighbor's parties, the officer said he could hear the noise from the lobby. This noise can also be easily heard by an officer just standing outside their apartment, there's no need for them to invade the privacy of whoever is registering the complaint by demanding to come inside THEIR apartment to make certain they are telling the truth, as though the tenant is five years-old.
I believe more people would alert Security about noise if Security didn't need to invade our privacy and come into our own apartments very late at night before launching their own investigation.
Thanks.
Dear Adam R. Rose,
It's you, renting to any old anybody who comes along with a means to pay inflated rents for chopped up apartments. It's you running the three-ring oval circus and throwing us under the bus for more commercial ventures. It's you who won't take steps to handle garbage, rats, the carriage rooms, the laundry rooms, the washing machines, the landscaping, the hotels. Don't put any of your responsibility on tenants. All you address on here is your fake concern about floor covering. Do something to show us you can manage this property to make it a decent place for tenants. Why is there an increase in the cost for storage? The rink's not doing well enough?
To Anon 4:12pm, I think you are losing sight of who owns this place: CWCapital, and that the owner sets certain policies.
Anonymous 12:45: In my experience, Renee Riley was less than useless. I'd copy out my last email to her for you, but what's the point.
In my experience and that of other neighbors, other so-called property managers are less than useless. Security is mostly useless: in full view of the PCV guard booth, a bunch of adult males had a full-on football game going on the lawn (with 2 footballs!). Did that help the lawn? Did the ball go "out of bounds" onto the path where someone was on crutches and another person was walking with cane? Duh! (I had to call Security two times to get a proper response.)
Or how about this: yesterday the floor of my laundry room was power washed. Behind the washers, filth accumulated over the years remains, along with the obligatory dead water bug. Is this really so hard to deal with, Adam? Many of us are making those calls and sending those emails, but we're still not getting results. Ball in your court.
Why don't you let him answer?
"We experienced consistent sleep disturbances by our upstairs neighbors who would come home from the bars regularly at 2, 3 or 4 in the morning, walk around the hallway and bedrooms for 10 or 15 minutes, wake us up, and by the time we could rouse ourselves from bed, call Public Safety and have them respond, the problem would have gone away"
What? Are you kidding? This is NYC apartment living. People come home at 2 a.m., 3 a.m. 5 a.m. from bars, from work, for all kinds of reasons. There is always some noise, though your neighbors should have carpets. But things wake you up in NYC in the middle of the night. Sorry, it just happens.
Please don't waste security's time with silliness like that. Parties that go past midnight, unauthorized visitors, loud music at late hours, people hanging around the hallway in the middle of the night, yes, you call security. But because people are coming home and you hear them in the bathroom, please.
STR: what you say is true, but Rose could still do things to improve this place without spending much money. For instance, when staff time is devoted to putting postcards under every single door, a reminder of policies could also be passed out (the hall is not a playground or a dog run, recycling and noise reminders, how to locate the garbage chute on your floor). It's galling to see all the effort and time (and, therefore, money) that goes into putting a wreath on every bloody streetlight when the basics are neglected. And couldn't existing plants be pruned and cared for instead of the gardener putting in yet more of those cabbages that will be an eyesore when the temperature goes below freezing? Rose needs to work smarter.
"We wouldn't recommend that anyone rent or buy an apartment in ST as long as there is such disrespect in general from people towards their neighbors right to live in peace and quiet, nor from a management firm that refuses to enforce reasonable rules about quality of life, as Rose Associates has done with their dog policy, bike policy, commercial event use of common areas and by having their utility vehicles driven all over the property recklessly and illegally."
Anon 12:30 I think articulated the problem pretty succinctly. Rose Associates are just not competent enough to deal with the issues we have here. The dog issue sums up Adam Rose's approach perfectly: if people disobey the rules, just ignore the rules. Is there even one dog owner here that abides by the dog rules on their lease rider? I'm heartened to know that Brookfield has their own management team which will be put in place after the conversion. Are there any guarantees? of course not, but at least we have a shot and we'll have some say as owners.
This falls under the category of
“You can’t make this stuff up”
Last night I was coming into my building via the "M" entrance @ ~ 10 pm.
The area is usually littered with piles of cigarette butts that are thrown around the stoop and the surrounding area (it’s not the porters fault, he cleans up the area as often as he can).
But last night, I was treated to a special “welcome home”.
There was a young man (shares his apartment with a few other young men in my building),he was violently throwing up on the side of the stoop..
It was quite disgusting! Thinking this young man might be in some medical distress, I asked him if he needed any assistance/help.
Between the volley of vomit emanating from his mouth, he turned to me in his vomit stained tee-shirt (no coat despite the 45’ish degree temp),
and, said “I don’t need any F***K’ing help”.
As I rode up in the elevator, I was thinking…
Why would anyone spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to buy their apartment here?
Instead of being greeted by a doorman by the entrance of my building, I was greeted by filth, garbage and a young man vomiting on himself and on the stoop.
The dorm-apartments are not going away so fast (if ever).
I rather spend more of my money in an established co-op/condo then to buy at a “insiders” price here in this doomed “sociology experiment” that the TA and BIP is putting together.
I am pleased to report that we DID revise the Tishman Speyer policy which required verification of noise problems. If the Public Safety Officer steps off the elevator and hears a loud party, or smells illegal substances which are obviously coming from one particular apartment, he or she will take action without disturbing the complaining apartment. However, if the noise complaint involves footsteps above, or other issues that can only be heard from one apartment, there is no alternative to visiting the complaining apartment. Regarding the other issues mentioned, there are many steps being taken to improve operational issues at PCVST. The remarks regarding the leasing policy suggests that we should illegally screen tenants according to age or some other undefined criteria……something that we will not consider much less actually do. I will not respond to this issue again because the comments from some tenants are hostile and inappropriate.
>>The remarks regarding the leasing policy suggests that we should illegally screen tenants according to age or some other undefined criteria……something that we will not consider much less actually do. I will not respond to this issue again because the comments from some tenants are hostile and inappropriate. <<
I guess Adam is taking his ball and going home...to his home, that is...not the rat infested slum that he's managing on the Lower East Side!
Hostile and inappropriate?!? Where do you get off, you smug SOB? The landscaping around here looks like a blasted moonscape; the place is rat and roach infested; the laundry rooms look like Beirut...on a bad day; and the zombie groundskeepers look like they're on crack...as they blow and rake leaves from the same 2 foot square patch for 3 hours...and usually in the rain!
Yeah...long time residents are fed up with being treated like cattle...or worse...nuisances...in order to appeal to the Generation X'ers, who are literally pissing and vomiting on this place nightly!
Hey...Adam, why don't we try this...the next time you decide to actually visit the property, why don't you leave the plush fakery of the rental office and arrange a meeting WITH SOME ACTUAL TENANTS, and take a guided tour of how this place looks to residents!
And mark my words...the only thing that will change anything around here is when one of the transients drops a cigarette and ignites their divided cubicalized dormroom and tenants and NYFD fireman DIE becuase they can't find their way out of a maze of pressurized walls! Then maybe Dopey Dan and Mayor-for-Life Mike might have to do something about this dump then!
Adam: If you didn't rent to three adults in a 1BR or four or five in a 2BR and not allow the fake walls, you wouldn't be discriminating. Problem solved.
As for you changing the rules: it's become impossible to know what the rules are because you never inform tenants. Example: Originally, there was a weight limit on dogs (40 pounds or two dogs with an aggregate weight of 40 pounds). Now there doesn't seem to be a limit. First, no dogs on any of the grassy areas. Now they can urinate and defecate almost anywhere.
I scrolled up and viewed many of the responses and have yet to find anything "hostile and inappropriate" addressed to Mr. Rose. This is the retort of an individual who is just becoming too uncomfortable addressing our concerns. This is fine of course, however, he was the one who made the overture.
Another point I would like to make is that a great deal of people are equating the fact that this place is a dump (which I agree with) with it being a bad investment AT AN INSIDER PRICE. This, I do not agree with. I certainly wouldn't pay market prices for a unit here, but even with all of its problems, (and assuming these problems will not be ameliorated) the units will be worth more than the prices paid for them. This is if nothing changes here. It comes down to pricing, and I believe that we will all be very surprised at how reasonable they will be, especially for us residents in the unrenovated apartments.
As far as rent reduction? Mine went down almost $800. Can't complain
Really? People's rent are being reduced? Mine went up 8%. I have to decided on the renewal by Friday.
I would agree with the writer who says that Renee Riley was less than useless. You can Add Tony DaSilva to that claim. I called both frequently over a 2 year period to opmplain about the apartment above me that was illegally converted to a 4 bedroom from a 2 bedroom. I was more concerned about a fire (the apartment was on fire once before)than I was about the noise yet they did NOTHING. After 2 years of their and TS and Rose's incompetence I called my nephew in the FDNY. In 7 days the illegal wall was down. The apartment is still sub leased out by the "tenant" (who has never lived there) but is making a profit on it instead. Apparently they rent it out to students who are mostly quiet (occasional parties, no big deal) but there is not 1 inch of carpeting in the apartment. Despite Mr. Rose's claim that Rose Associates take this seriously we are now going on almost 3 years of calls and still no carpets yet.
To Adam Rose: I am sorry that some people have made hostile remarks about you and your employees; however, I think the only way that the property can ever be improved is if you stop renting it out as a dorm. The behavior of the students and their visitors is totally unacceptable in a residential property. In a dorm it would be expected, although none the nicer, but at least the people living and working there would be prepared to deal with Animal House. I don't like living in Animal House. I don't think your employees like cleaning up Animal House. Please restore the property to real residential housing and cut out the chopped up dorm apartments. I know Rose didn't start this policy, it was started by MetLife, but I sure wish Rose and CW would end it. The arrangement with NYU (and other colleges) housing has been the kiss of death to this once desirable place. And btw, I always found dealing with Renee Riley to be a very pleasant experience and she did help me with my downstairs neighbors who partied at 4:30 am on a regular basis.
Despite the well-crafted, carefully-worded responses from Mr. Rose, if you asked the non-transient residents of this community if this place is on the "right track" or going in the "wrong direction," I think most people would answer the latter.
Spin aside, we still face the same challenges we faced under TS and many of them seem to be exacerbated as staffing levels decline and commercial ventures on the property increase.
The only thing we seem to know for sure is that the young man vomiting on the steps in one of the previous posts is satisfied with his experience here and is not looking for change--though he seems to have misplaced his dinner...
I think it's important to have a thread on this blog that has the single focus of the upcoming conversion proposals. Maybe one post per week to which we can respond. I think the conversion proposal is the most important thing that will happen for all of us in the next 3-4 months. With Lux Living gone, STR is the most valuable asset we have for communicating.
I give the TA all the credit in the world for staying together through the years to deal with tenant issues. However, in the matter of the conversion plans to do not think the TA Exec board has done a good job. I think the communication has been poor, the endorsement of Brookfield as a partner was premature, the TA Exec has taken far more authority than it can legitimately claim. It has also severely limited & controlled dialogue with the tenants. Note...you cannot comment any of the posts entered at the TA site. Also as he is a former employee of the Paul, Weiss law firm, I question what Garodnick's role has been in all this.
I believe that unless the TA starts taking a more objective, facilitating role very soon, there will be considerable dissent in all this. How the tenants' best interests are served and what the true elements of tenant leverage are - these are subjects that need to be openly discussed...not tight-fistedly controlled by Garodnick & the TA.
January 10, 2012 7:53 PM
"What? Are you kidding? This is NYC apartment living. People come home at 2 a.m., 3 a.m. 5 a.m. from bars, from work, for all kinds of reasons."
You see, this attitude is the exact problem that residents now face every day. The narcissistic, uncaring, self-centered and oblivious thinking that leads people to believe that they are the only people living in the building that matter. No concern about taking their shoes off when they come into their apartment (we did that no matter the hour) and having uncarpeted hallways and floors that transmit sound to the neighbor below. Let's not lose sight of the fact that your downstairs neighbor might not have the same schedule that you do, and just might need to get up to go to work in the morning in order to pay their $4,000 a month rent bill. Don't bullshit me with your "this is New York" nonsense. People lived here for more than 50 years without having constant disruptions to their sleep and their ability to enjoy the peaceful use of their apartments. Just because you were raised in a barn, doesn't mean that your neighbors were as well. If this is what you consider "normal" behavior, then I can only hope that your eviction will come quickly, which no doubt will be a great relief to YOUR neighbors.
STR...can you possibly add 'sort by newest' & 'sort by oldest' to the site? Might be a pain but would be very helpful. Many thanks.
Adam,
The leasing policy under MetLife was that there couldn't be more than 2 unrelated people on a lease. The fact that this policy is no longer in effect has nothing to do with discriminating against anyone, but is simply not followed in order to allow apartments to be subdivided to accommodate as many tenants as practical in order to meet the outrageous rent demand. Let's call a horse a horse, shall we ?
Thank you, Mr. Rose. It's great that you revised that policy.
Adam Rose:
Why not ask NYU at your next contract meeting to sign in a----- wall TO WALL carpet clause for the students.
And, why not post a phone number at NYU (24 hour of course) where tenants here can report vomiting in the hallways by their students, 52" speakers blasting through the walls, all night screamers and bug infested garbage all over the hallway???
Let's get a phone number and a list going.
No one is asking Mr. Rose to set an age limit on tenants (duh).
How about apartment occupancy? Is it REALLY legitimate to have 4 or 5 people living in 700 sf?????????????????????????? YOu don't think that a problem?
Great post Jan 11 1230pm.
You nailed it.
January 10, 2012 7:53 PM
"What? Are you kidding? This is NYC apartment living. People come home at 2 a.m., 3 a.m. 5 a.m. from bars, from work, for all kinds of reasons."
That is the typical remark and mentality of an asshole from a flyover state! GO HOME!
Mr. Rose,
Why are we surrounded by mounds of compost? I think recycling is just grand, I really do.
That said, perhaps you could do it elsewhere instead of in front of my building? After all, a chin-high pile of rotting leaves wrapped in chicken wire is not an amenity.
Try as I might, I have been unable to skate on it...
Just wondering—Security (on their super-duper surveillance system) didn't see this kid barfing his guts out and check on him? IMHO, he should be charged for cleaning up the mess he made.
I've lived in ST for more than 10 years. I've always lived in a RS apartment (45 years now). I understand the importance of being a good neighbor. I too have problems with my neighbors BUT my problem neighbors are old-timers not 20-somethings. I have no problems asking my neighbors to be more considerate. Fortunately, the younger ones listen to me. But the older ones, the ones who've been here forever, its their beliefs that they own the joint.
Problem: one of my neighbors ( a woman in her 50s) drops more f-bombs than the US Navy (sorry squids). Screams them all day, all night.
Problem: My upstairs neighbor continues to misuse her toilet. I cannot understand how soemone can continually cause her toilet to overflow (Depends diapers flushing maybe). You should see my bathroom ceiling.
I get it. More younger persons than older persons lack good neighbor understanding. But let's be careful with the over generalizations. If we were the government, these statements would be discriminatory.
To Anon who replied:
“Upper Class” do not buy apartments with one bathroom!
“Upper class” do not buy apartments that do not have a doorman!
“Upper class” do not buy apartments with filthy laundry rooms and broken machines!
“Upper class” do not buy apartments with filthy hall ways!
“Upper class” do not by apartments in institutional looking buildings that resemble a prison or housing for the criminally insane!
You are clearly living in a reality distortion field. You and all your rent control pals here should spend one day shopping for real estate or rentals in Manhattan. Let me know what you find for under $1MM, I'll be waiting for you here in the year 2012.
Someone asked for another thread to discuss the conversion plan, but what is the point? It will only be filled with the near psychotic ramblings of 1-10 people who obviously are not happy living here. Memo to them: MOVE. If you think it is that bad, simply MOVE.
NEWSFLASH: This is America, you can go wherever you like!!
If you live here, you're probably not some unemployed pregnant welfare Mom who has no options, YOU CAN MOVE!!! Please note: Things are different now, things have changed. Ike isn't president anymore and the Dodgers have moved to LA.
They probably shouldn't allow the NYU students to live here, BUT THEY DO! DEAL WITH IT! There are a couple of groups of kids in my building, and they are very polite and respectful. Were they to throw a party that was out of bounds I'd go talk to them or maybe even join them. It sounds like many of you whiners could use a good stiff drink or maybe some ganja to chill the F out.
I am starting to understand why Luxy quit, it's sickening reading these same whiny complaints OVER and OVER. Find another site to complain on, the FOX News site has lots of whiners in their forums, check them out. They hate change too.
I moved into PCV in 2009 and I love living here, I love my building and I love my neighbors. Yes, the building could be kept cleaner, and yes it appears they spend way too much money on the landscaping, but all in all I think this is a great place to live. I hope the conversion goes through, I am excited to buy my apartment and live here the rest of my life.
Peace Out G-MONEY $$
PS: Leave ADAM alone for chrissakes, I'm sure he doesn't have an "S" on his undergarment.
"and yes it appears they spend way too much money on the landscaping"
Are you serious? There is no landscaping on 95% of the property.
Hey G money you must be a real genius. Since you moved here in 2009 you must be paying around 3 to 4 grand a month for an apartment in a building with no doorman, no amenities, nothing. You are absolutely the person we should be taking advice from. There is a term that Mr Rose and all the people involved in Manhattan real estate call people as bright as you, and that term is ....CHUMP!
"I am starting to understand why Luxy quit, it's sickening reading these same whiny complaints OVER and OVER. Find another site to complain on, the FOX News site has lots of whiners in their forums, check them out. They hate change too." 7:30 p.m.
AMEN, Sister/Brother!! The craziness on this site is palpable. I mean, they make all these assumptions (flyover state--I'm a NEW YORKER), call people "narcissistic" for working shifts that end at midnight, or socialize until 3 am. What kind of neighbors are these people on this site? They are the nightmare neighbors, the Mrs. Kravitz from Bewitched, etc.
to anon January 11, 2012 11:44 PM
Chump? Methinks not...
My rent has been lowered a total of $1200 per month since I moved in, that's probably more than you pay, but I'm OK with that. When the conversion goes through I will get a sweet deal on my apartment, all part of my master plan.
You can hate all you want but I prefer to remain positive and stay as happy as I can. And hey, at least I have a dishwasher! So there!
Peace Out G-Money
MOVE, then. What are you doing here? Just move. It will NEVER be like it was when you were a kid. Ever. So just move now and stop your whining over and over and over.
Why is it that the new people who moved into ST/PCV in the last 5 to 10 years think everyone needs to change to suit their lifestyles. I've been here alot longer than that and I can tell you that the changes that have occurred here are not positive changes they are negative changes. This was once one of the best neighborhoods in all of NY now they cant rent an apartment without stuffing 6 people in a former 2 bedroom now 3 bedroom or renting them out as dorm rooms. No one with a brain would move a family here, in fact, in my building 3 families have moved out in the past month and another is leaving at the end of Feb. Each bought a house outside NYC for less than they were being asked for rent. Yet, these same whiners aren't bright enough to understand why others call them narcissists. I guess thats a true narcissist for you, they can only think about themselves.I used to say I hoped the place would stay rental only but now I hope the place goes co-op because I will stay a renter and I will take full advantage of the law and I will utilize every service that I am entiltled to because that will be money right out of these very stupid people's pockets. If they deny me a service or become abusive I will slap multi million dollar lawsuits on them. Clearly its a win win situation for me and a very expensive proposition for the wannabe owners. Oh and by the way I'm not going to change just for changes sake, I will change when something positive occurs but since I havent seen any of that here I wouldnt count on me or many of the long termers changing. So as the yunnies that are on here whining say "deal with it"!
@Anonymous January 12, 2012 7:52 AM
It doesn't matter what shift you work or what hours you come home. You need to respect your neighbors and not make noise when most of them are sleeping. I worked all of those shifts too. Came home from the bars at 4AM, but never once got a complaint from a neighbor or my landlord. Why ? because I was considerate enough to minimize the disruption to my neighbors.
Some of you folks seem to be oblivious of the fact that other people live around you.
" Anonymous said...
Hey G money you must be a real genius. Since you moved here in 2009 you must be paying around 3 to 4 grand a month for an apartment in a building with no doorman, no amenities, nothing. "
- Another living in the StuyTown Rent Controlled Reality Distortion field. Seriously, schedule an appointment with a real estate agent and let me know how many 3 bedrooms with all those amenities you find in the EV or Gramercy for 3 - 4K.
"G Money"
I hear you, so much complaining, I too moved here in 2009 and am apparently a chump for paying market rate for a 1br. I hope we can by, I love it here.
The person who originally posted:
"What? Are you kidding? This is NYC apartment living. People come home at 2 a.m., 3 a.m. 5 a.m. from bars, from work, for all kinds of reasons."
Also said, if people are having a party after hours, or hanging out in the halls call security.
I feel rent stab people have no idea how good they have it, so what's the alternative, have a curfew?
There just not reasonable, maybe they're the Fox News types,
"Hey G money you must be a real genius. Since you moved here in 2009 you must be paying around 3 to 4 grand a month for an apartment in a building with no doorman, no amenities, nothing. You are absolutely the person we should be taking advice from. There is a term that Mr Rose and all the people involved in Manhattan real estate call people as bright as you, and that term is ....CHUMP!" --11:44pm
Not G Money, but mostly agree with him. Go try to find a relatively spacious (in NYC terms) Manhattan apartment in a relatively good location with relatively good facilities, and let me know what you find and which bodily organ you have to give the landlord as part of your deposit. I came to ST in 2010, pay in the mid-high $2k range, and think I'm getting a very good value. I remember looking at absolutely disgusting apartments for $3,000-$3,500/month, and rents around the city have risen considerably since my hunt in 2010. Sure, some folks get lucky and have friends of friends who have insider knowledge of some great apartments, but for the vast majority of New Yorkers (both transient and lifelong residents), these just aren't the realities of the apartment search game. Unless you're paying for a place at the top of the market, no apartment in New York is going to give you everything you're looking for. So, chill.
Wow, look at all the newbie whiners, they sound like That fat guy Ed or Chris "Obama gives me a stiffer" Matthews or Rachel,"Obama gives me a stiffer" Maddow from BSNBC. You must be as bright as G-Money since you are willing to pay out your ass for a dishwasher. Open the NY Times that you pretend to read because it's your liberal bible and look at the real estate section. Manhattan is full of 3 to 4 grand apartments with pools and gyms and concierges (and dishwashers) in the actual building. Just because you keep whining that they dont exist doesnt make it true but Saul Alinsky would be proud of you since his theory is say it over and over again and it becomes true. Not to those who can actually think for themselves.
@10:51--You are staying in a place you hate, filled with narcissists, that you know isn't going to get any "better," just for the prospect of maybe suing for millions of dollars if you don't get your way? THAT's your retirement plan? Why don't you just sue now? I mean, you gotta be in it to win it, right?
You people are the narcissists if you think every footstep, every voice, every note of music must be muted to satisfy some outdated memory of this community. I'm living above/below (I can't tell) an old guy whose body emits all kinds of weird, almost nonhuman sounding noises--I mean really loud. It's disgusting--I'd obviously rather hear a young person's laugh or some music than to hear the sounds of degeneration of this old coot's body from the inside out through the bathroom or bedroom steam pipe. I should call security and report that the chupacabra lives downstairs.
You whiners better realize how lucky you are to have your apartments at the prices you do. You should be PRAYING that you can even remain living here, let alone complain about farmers markets, concerts and young neighbors. It's ugly out there--the rents that you call chump rents here are VASTLY lower than out in the rest of Manhattan. I would just keep mouth shut and be grateful for what you have.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/12/manhattan-rent-jumps-as-apartment-vacancy-declines_n_1201726.html
"After years of falling prices, the average rent of a Manhattan apartment rose to $3,309 last year, just one dollar shy of the pre-recession record set in 2007. The $263 jump from 2010 makes for an 8.6 percent increase, The New York Post reports.
And even if you can afford the rent, you may have more trouble finding the apartment. Vacancies dropped to a miniscule .96 percent, down from 1.16 percent in 2010."
Just this fall I looked around some for alternatives. Walk-up buildings between 1st 'n 2nd in the 20s were over $4k for a 2 bedroom.. and that 2br was likely a 2br/1ba with 800 square feet. PCV seems like a better and better value in comparison. And, for a comparably sized doorman building, I couldn't find anything under $5700 (and that was WITH a 12% broker fee! Ouch!)
8:20 AM confirms that many of the whiners are the gray hair tea party FOX news watching right wing nut jobs who accuse Obama of being a socialist and then scream, "HANDS-OFF my rent stabilization and Medicare." LOLOL--such selfish hypocrisy!.
So which is it there are no apartments outside ST for 3 to 4 grand or the average 2 bedroom rent in mahattan is 3 grand. Typical of the newbie whiners to prove themselves wrong. You make this too easy.
FYI to G money, you may need to tweak your "master plan" because if you moved here in 2009 you dont get the same insider price, knucklehead!
Anon
January 12, 2012 10:51 AM
and
January 13, 2012 8:20 AM
Really? Wow.
WOW
Apparently the fact that people have opinions not in line with yours means it's time to resort to insults, name-calling and the threatening of lawsuits.
This, I suppose, is considered rational and adult behavior.
With respect to the conversion proposals.... I now understand the mechanics of all this a little better. My understanding is that CW will have to pick one plan & one plan only. The sponsor of the plan will then need to have it approved by the New York State Dept of Law...that is, the plan will need to be judged realistic, credible & conforming with legal standards. That done, the sponsor will then need to address the tenants and get signed contracts that show a commitment to buy. If 15% of the units contract (commit) to buy, the plan rolls ahead. The role of tenants & the TA is rather minimal. However, if there is a lot of bad buzz about a plan, CW has to consider...is it worth spending all the time to get the plan vetted and approved through Albany only to discover that 15% of the units will not sign up. At which point they're back to square one.
So the buzz is actually quite important. In my view Guterman's plan should be looked at by everybody and questioned by everybody just as they should look at and question Brookfield's. That's how we can best understand where to put our weight.
I am one of the long term rent stabilized renters and I have no desire to buy my apartment. I have no problems with my young new neighbors, but if I did have I would make myself heard and make sure something was done about them. Some of the posters here seem to feel it is ok to ride roughshod over the rent stabilized older people who live here. I guess this is the way they were brought up, but it doesn't mean they will get away with it. Treat me with the same respect that you want me to treat you with. As for people who work shifts or come home from bars in the early hours of the morning, you have a legal obligation to exercise consideration toward your neighbors. I don't know the exact times, but I believe it is the period between 11 pm and 7 am you are required by law to not make excessive noise that disturbs people. I think some of the newer tenants need to grow up and behave like responsible adults. That isn't asking too much. Or is it?
Instead of sniping at each other which is not, I believe, the purpose of this blog, some of you who are so inclined might want to do something positive. Please join the Met Council on Housing. They are a great group and are constantly looking for volunteers. Trading info is very valuable, but not constantly demonizing and insulting one another.
To: January 13, 2012 8:20 AM
I'm a market rater and my rent is $2,600. I look at it as $2,500 bc electricity is included. You cant get a comparable sized/quality/location place, hands down.
Anonymous January 13, 2012 8:20 AM
I think this post was meant for another thread.
10:09 a.m.--that is SO not true, it's not even funny. ANYONE who lives here on the date of any official offering statement is entitled to an insider price. And either kind, the very discounted one with certain income and price restrictions on resale, and the regular insider price with the short-term flip tax/surcharge. If the offering date was June 2, 2012 and I moved in on June 1, by law I am entitled to any insider price. AND every tenant is part of any continued class action until there is a permanent settlement with Met Life/TS. The newer people just don't get much, if any, back rent overpayment refunded.
I wonder how many of those grey haired, right wing, blah blah blah tenants are retired NYPD or FBI ? Youngsters might want to learn a little respect, especially before it comes to find them. I find it comical that these people don't seem to have any knowledge of the history of the development and it's residents, and think that (as one poster just put it) that they can ride roughshod over the long time tenants here. It might be worth understanding what the ingredients are in the pot you're stirring, especially before the first taste.
Before I moved in here two years ago (returning to my hometown of NYC after 6 years in Chicago), I scouted 2 BR apartments on the UWS and in this neighborhood on my reconnaissance trips here for work. OMG!!!! Anything worth looking at--and certainly not even as roomy or with as nice kitchens or bathrooms as here--was pushing $4500. At least $4200. Granted those were mostly doorman buildings, but some were elevator buildings like here.
And MOST were around $4000-4100, and they were soooo small, dark, with like one and a half tiny closets, terrible galley kitchens--really 1 BRs with a new wall. And of course, you have to pay for electric and, the heat was mostly those bad electric units and I know from living in Waterside Plaza, which had those electric forced air heat/a/c units and at one point submetered their electricity, your bills go from $50-90/month to about $250/month, even in the winter.
I am so lucky to be here and am hoping that the buyer price will be good enough for us to buy and stay here for the rest of our lives. It's really scary out there. I work as a professional/managerial level, but in the nonprofit sector, not Wall Street, but not working class, and certainly not rich. I am paying a pretty high price compared to the old timers, but it's not quite as high as the real market for 2 BR (don't forget, that $3,300 average includes a lot of run down, 6th floor walk up tenements as well, which are not where I would want my lifestyle to go at this stage in my life! That was fine in my 20s/early 30s, but now I expect a bit more, especially after downsizing from a house. I mean this, you gotta stop complaining about your neighbors and just thank your lucky stars you're still here. You really need to start being more grateful and less complaining.
HUH? What does NYPD or FBI have anything to do with anything? What's your point? With their pensions and lifetime health care, double time and new careers at 45, I don't think they are the mass oppressed? Not that I don't think they deserve their hard-earned benefits, but that doesn't mean they can act like a grumpy old Mr Wilson and wave their fists at "the youth today."
Most of the complaints are justified and are serious QOL complaints. No matter how nice an apartment is and how reasonable the rent, if you have neighbors that make your life hell it is not worth anything. If you have filthy, squalid laundry rooms and recycling rooms, it diminishes from the pleasantness of living here. I am a long time rs tenant and I absolutely love my apartment, but I would enjoy it more if my neighbors didn't party hearty at 4:30 in the morning and if I could use the laundry machines without having to scour out a lot of scum and hair first. Even if you are living in a wonderful apartment free of charge, but have neighbors from hell, then you are paying a very high cost with your health and well-being. We need for everybody to be respectful of each other - young and old, MR and RS. I feel badly for some of the MR tenants who are paying big bucks to live here and have to deal with filthy hallways, laundry facilities, recycling rooms, etc. I wouldn't want to pay through the nose for that. By the same token I feel sorry for older tenants who feel they are regarded with contempt and loathing by the younger ones just because they are older and paying a lower rent. I'm not old, but having been in my apartment for a good many years, my rent is fairly low by comparison to the MR rents. I appreciate what I've got and don't take it for granted. I also don't think I should take any abuse because of it either! A good many of the older tenants are retired FDNY, teachers, NYPD (and FBI as one poster mentioned) and have worked pretty hard all their lives and don't deserve to be treated with the contempt that a lot of the younger tenants show toward them.
AnonJanuary 13, 2012 4:24 PM
You obviously never lived here before Tishman, right ?
To the contrary, I think the newer tenants should be immensely grateful to the long time tenants for helping to keep the place is such decent condition that 65 years later they have a place to move into. You have absolutely no right to tell anyone how lucky they are to live here when you didn't spend 10 years on a waiting list for an apartment. Now all it takes to live here is to sign on the bottom line and have a modern day salary that will pay your rent. The people who have lived here for 30, 40 50 or 60 years didn't ascribe to 6 or 7 figure incomes. They were content to live as middle class New Yorkers and did just that. When Met Life SOLD OUT the complex from under everyone's feet, it opened the door for uncaring, oblivious idiots to populate the place with not a second thought about who came before them. I say to those folks, you don't know how lucky YOU are.
I said I'm lucky, but you act like I never lived in NYC or knew better rent days. But now you are lucky too to still be able to live here. have lived all over this city, rent stabilized, market, Mitchell-lama, you name it. I know a good deal when I see it and this is still a great place to live. There are college students, assholes, loud people, dirty people, etc all over this city, this is no exception or special place.
Please, you have to stop talking like you are the only ones who belong here. I It's a losing proposition and you're only alienating 3/4 of the tenant population. What are you going to do if there is no protection whatsoever? You can sue all you want, you'll still get evicted. And try finding any apartment. This TA deal may be it for sometime unless we get an entirely new state legislature, city government, federal government, etc. And stop watching FOX news. That's certainly not helping your perspective!
And please stop with your bitter name calling, if you call us "uncaring, oblivious idiots," that actually makes you one. You sound so old and so bitter. You need to stop complaining or you will just rot inside. Please try to be grateful and stop lamenting all that you feel you've lost.
@Poster at 5:44 pm: AMEN TO THAT AND THANK YOU!!!
I am growing weary of all of the sniping and nastiness here. I find it amusing how people hide behind anonymity to act in a way they never would if they had to look you in the eye.
However, I must respond to this:
"FYI to G money, you may need to tweak your "master plan" because if you moved here in 2009 you dont get the same insider price, knucklehead!
January 13, 2012 10:09 AM"
Please don't speak of what you do not know.
NYS LAW:
If a discount price is offered at all, however, it must be offered to all tenants in occupancy on the date of the acceptance of the offering plan by the attorney general.
http://realestateqa.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/06/25/insider-prices-in-a-conversion/
PEACE OUT G-MONEY
10:09 a.m.--that is SO not true, it's not even funny. ANYONE who lives here on the date of any official offering statement is entitled to an insider price. And either kind, the very discounted one with certain income and price restrictions on resale, and the regular insider price with the short-term flip tax/surcharge. If the offering date was June 2, 2012 and I moved in on June 1, by law I am entitled to any insider price. AND every tenant is part of any continued class action until there is a permanent settlement with Met Life/TS. The newer people just don't get much, if any, back rent overpayment refunded.
January 13, 2012 4:03 PM
Full disclosure, I am not a lawyer but obviously you are. So as a lawyer I assume you have heard of something known as a CBA or collectively bargained agreement, i.e. a contract. In a collectively bargained agreement the law can be altered as long as both parties agree to the stipulations. Any plan that passes will be a contract between the parties involved. Therefore, the strict letter of the law isnt in control. No one said that anyone who lives here wont get an insider price, what was said was that newer residents wouldnt get the same insider price as long term residents. If you attended any of the meetings or listened to the teleconference you would have heard that besides the 2 different categories that you mentioned there would be tiers of different prices. There was a concern that Brookfield could just rent out every empty apartment and fill them with their employees and friends and bums off the street and then have then commit to buy and thus force the deal down tenants throats. I believe it was Dan G who addressed this issue saying that there would be different pricing levels to prevent this from happening. Do you think any deal will be a pay one price for any 2 bedroom? Of course not. PCV will be more expensive than ST. Different locations will have different pricing, recently renovated vs older renovated vs non renovated will all have different tiers in regards to price. Once again I am not a lawyer but since you are you would know better than me but I am thinking you may want to file a lawsuit against your law school because you are woefully unprepared for your chosen career.
As long as people continue to act as they're entitled to be at the center of the universe, then I'll continue to call it as I see it.
And stop with the political hatred. I won't engage in any of the Fox/Lib bullshit that's poisoning our society these days. It has on place in this forum. We're talking about aberrant human behavior, not political ideologies.
@Poster at 5:44 pm
Yes, and we are all lucky the Dutch bought Manhattan from the natives.
Come on.
Can somebody reply to a point here without reverting to early childhood and name calling?
Seriously.
Anon January 13, 2012 9:02 PM
Sounds like some of these posts are striking a nerve. The truth hurts doesn't it ?
8:50 p.m.: You have no idea what you are talking about. CBA's are LABOR contracts, what does that have to do with anything. I was at both meetings/conference calls and both prices apply to all willing tenants. The insider is just like any other condo deal, but hopefully will be affordable and other than a flip tax period, you can sell it to whomever and for however much the market permits.
The very deeply discounted has additional restrictions to whom (income level) and for how much (price) you can sell your unit to. If you were interested in staying for a long time, perhaps couldn't afford the regular insider price, and not really interested in the freedom to sell at whatever price you wanted, that would be a way to buy. But same thing: available to every tenant at the time of the deal.
THAT is the proposed buyout plan, and yes, the law requires that they offer it to everyone. This of course, depends on the deal that the TA and Brookfield are able to make with CW (I see people talking CW selling us condos and still being our landlord, they clearly have NO idea what's going, lol).
Again, with the insults.
Did anyone read that NY Times article about intelligence and individual perception of their own intelligence. There was a study measuring the actual intelligence of several hundred/thousand people. Then they were tested and asked about their own perceptions of their intelligence vis a vis the rest of the population.
Almost without fail, those with lower intelligence numbers vastly overrated their own relative intelligence and thought they actually knew more than they did, often personally insulting anyone with a different opinion.
Those with higher intelligence had a slightly lower perception of their own relative intelligence and were more humble/willing to admit they had more to learn on the issue. When they differed on issues, they would attack the substance, but not the person. (And as a complete aside, yes, generally their politics were moderate/a bit more left of center, but that has more to do with the type of mind and level of intelligence prone to simple thinking, extremism and digging in one's heels without hearing).
The confusion regarding pricing I think is due to a perception that newer people are paying more for the apartments because they are simply new. Longer standing tenants will pay less only because their apartments are unrenovated. So in this sense, one can say that a tenant who has been here before all the insanity began (approximately 11 years and back) with an unrenovated apt will pay the lower price ("price credit" as Meredith called it). Suposedly the renovations that TS did cost them around 50-60 grand? So I would think that the "credit" would be equal to that amount. While the conversion will certainly provide a good deal for everyone, indeed, it will be better for the senior tenants.
The only relevance to when you moved in has to do with whether you live in a renovated apartment. There will likely be a bit of a "rebate" for those who live in the old run-down style apartments and/or with no A/C. But that won't be that much in comparison to the others--a set dollar amount that reflects the cost of putting the apartment into that same condition.
But that has nothing to do with the two tiers of insider prices they are talking about--those have to do with restrictions on resale.
"a set dollar amount that reflects the cost of putting the apartment into that same condition. "
Well according to the books, that would be 50-60 grand, much more than "a bit of a rebate" in my opinion. I ask you, how much do YOU think it would cost to bring an unrenovated unit to par with a renovated one? Even with the shitty renovations they did.You are correct though in that the only relevance is renovated/unrenovated.
I would estimate that you could put in new floors, and a decent kitchen and bath for under 40 thousand, depending on the contractor and quality of materials, but that also depends on how much plumbing, concrete and plaster work also needs to be done. Could be 40-50 by the time you're done. And don't forget that all the work needs to be specified and approved by the condo board since you can't have people knocking down walls and replacing plumbing without oversight.
Dear Stuy Town Reporter and fellow tenants,
I can share with you how I was unwittingly able to get mgmt to clean our building's filthy common areas: take them to court for refusal to exterminate bed bugs. I had to take them to court and a neighbor in my building also filed a complaint with the city for their refusal to exterminated bed bugs after two treatments. The property manager refuses to answer tenants phone calls after a few treatments. This happened to me and several people I have spoken to over the past few months so I would venture to say this is their MO.
Our bike/storage room was filthy, garbage everywhere, roach droppings all over the light fixtures, mice, discarded mattresses left there for weeks( and we have a good porter) until suddenly the whole area got cleaned up right before Christmas, per property manager's orders. And the carpeting gets vacuumed weekly too! Call 311 and file complaints with the city, otherwise they will do nothing(and take photos). CW and Rose care nothing about our quality of life. It took fear of health violations from city inspectors to get my building cleaned.
These clowns will be gone soon, thank goodness- word from a reliable source told me has we will be getting offerings from Brookfield in JUNE. The TA must have been working with CW for a while. Why would they have made the announcement without knowing it's pretty much a done deal?
As for the person who rigged the door so he/she could hotel their apartment, can you share the address of that building?
I don't believe I can share that info, anon, but it was an Oval address, if I remember correctly.
As to building maintenance, I have noticed an improvement of late, though it is not helped by the amount of garbage that very quickly accumulates overnight in the recycling area.
Anon 11:54 How could we get offerings from Brookfield in June if Brookfield hasn't even submitted a bid to CW yet? I believe the bid has to come first and then maybe even an acceptance of the bid. Are you saying that this is all done already?
>>Why would they have made the announcement without knowing it's pretty much a done deal?<<
To put pressure on CW to accept the offer. It's a publicity game at this point, I think. I wouldn't laugh, but all of this conversion talk and debate may be completely useless. Time will tell.
I am saying that the person I spoke to, who has friends on the inside and has been reliable in the past concerning other ST rumors, said Brookfield will be offering the apartments in June. This may or may not be true but it's worth sharing.
St Reporter: you may be correct that it is just a publicity stunt to put pressure on CW and also made all the politicians involved look like heroes. The announcement at the the TA meeting mimicked a political rally.
I guess we'll have to wait and see.
The TA's lawyer and Brookfield said in both meetings that they hoped to have an offer in writing to CW by late March or April and a viable condo plan by June. It's no secret.
It could be a way to pressure CW or it could be that there's already been plenty of informal discussions between the parties about the general terms.
Having a viable plan in June and making an offering in June is not the same thing. Most tenants I spoke to came away from the meeting thinking it would be a 18-24 month process as Meridith claimed. I am sure they are having very formal meetings and have been for some time. The TA said we would have time to submit our questions and concerns. Really? Where and when do we do this? Shouldn't there be another tenants meeting where we can actually ask questions, not some dial-in town hall meeting where our questions are cherry picked and real concerns omitted from the dialog?
"There will likely be a bit of a "rebate" for those who live in the old run-down style apartments"
Spoken with jaw clenched and head cocked towards Greenwich...
You really aren't up to speed, are you?
http://www.protectstpcv.org/
The TA's web site dedicated to the conversion. Where you go for info and to ask questions.
And 8:30--you're just an malcontent. All you ever do is insult--want some cheese with that whine?
Well I liked it 8:30!!! Sadly, I have no doubt it's accurate.
"You have no idea what you are talking about. CBA's are LABOR contracts, what does that have to do with anything."
No one ever said they werent. CBA was used to illustrate a contract not to say this would be a CBA but a contract. Read it again. Most people also recognize that like in a CBA the strict letter of the law is not always followed, i.e, when a union contract authorizes OT pay after 8 hrs/day despite the law in NY being OT after 40 hrs/week. Most people recognize that CBA's can do this but were unaware the same can occur in a contract. Thus the reason any contract between parties involved whether it be the TA/Brookfield plan or the guterman plan or any other plan needs the Attorney General of the state of NY to approve it before it can be offered.
One of the things that stopped any conversion attempts dead in their tracks the last time the TA tried this was the weight of the potential (and promised) lawsuits if there wasnt different pricing models for differing locations, i.e, main floor versus top floor or 14th and C versus 20th and first. This is a unique situation unlike other building conversions where everyone is at the same location and the ground floor generally is commercial. Because of the vast size of ST/PCV,clearly some apartments have a much higher resale potential than others. Thus the reason pricing tiers are being considered because if they are not the TA will be sued by the members it purports to represent and their plan goes nowhere. Guterman has been told this also.
"I am saying that the person I spoke to, who has friends on the inside and has been reliable in the past concerning other ST rumors"
What were the other rumors that proved to be reliable? I'm sure we'd all like a window into the future and would love to hear about your past performance in these predictions.
Do tell!
To anon January 16, 2012 5:15 PM
I can't believe a pricing tier would be that difficult to formulate, in fact, it already exists, sort of.
When I rented here they had a different rent assigned to each apartment, I selected the one I felt the most comfortable with. The ground floor apts were less than the higher up floors, the ones with river views more than the ones facing in, PCV was more than ST, etc.
It wouldn't take much to extrapolate this formula to condo sale prices. And I rented from the Tishmans, if they figured this out I'm sure the TA will.
Peace Out G-Money
To 8:57: Person I spoke to also knew about the Met Life sale to Tishman before anyone else I spoke to in the complex.
I wanted to share this info because I was trying to be helpful.
As for Mr 1:11AM you are not acting nicely. I believe you would feel differently if you had bed bugs for over a year and had a landlord who refused to remediate. It's unconscionable that Rose Assoc. ignores tenants with these problems. Why you are so nasty, I don't know. Maybe you work for Rose.
As for the TA"S website. I've been there and I am still waiting for answers to my questions -it's not the open dialog they spoke about.
There are posters on this board working for Rose.
I guess they have plenty of time on their hands.
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