As readers may know by now, the Green (Farmers) Market is returning to Stuyvesant Town in its previous location at the southern edge of the Oval grounds. According to this week's Town & Village newspaper, the market "will go from being an event that's been open to the public to one that's for residents and their guests only." Our councilman Dan Garodnick, who promised last year to work with management to place the Green Market in an area that would meet what was then considered proper zoning regulations, sent a letter to Amanda Burden, Director of the Department of City Planning, stating that "he considered the matter closed after working with CW Capital to find a way to bring the greenmarket back without its use being considered commercial activity." Garodnick has had talks with both the Dept. of City Planning and the Department of Buildings, and has come to the conclusion, according to T&V, that the zoning laws prevent "open commercial use" of residential property, but that "limited commercial activity in residential areas that are designed to serve as an 'accessory use' for residents and their guests only" are allowed. At least now there is clarity (hopefully).
While certain readers may be disappointed in the obvious sidestep here, I am not averse to having the Green Market in its former place, as long as something is done aesthetically to the area it occupies one day a week. When the Green Market is gone for six days out of the week and permanently during the winter/early spring season, that area looks dismal, depressing and slum-like. It's also a haven for dogs to relieve themselves, so the sanitary conditions for placing food there seem suspect. Apparently management has looked into a solution, but nothing yet has emerged to rectify the situation.
Of course, readers will pick up on the tired old tale of activities being open to ST/PCV "residents and their guests." We all know by now that Public Safety does not card people entering Stuyvesant Town and Peter Cooper (this complex is "public access," after all), and that outsiders have taken full advantage of the summer events here, as well as the Oval grounds for sunbathing. I'm not that sure that outsiders really take advantage of the Green Market, however. It's a small market, after all, and I don't see Lower East Siders trudging up blocks to pick out limited fresh organic produce or meat. I could be wrong, however, and will check when I can. ;-)
In order to keep to the spirit of the law, CW Capital will not "market" the market as a public event. Expect to see signage that refers to the market being for "residents and their guests only." I do have to note that at least one of the companies that will be at the market is promoting the Stuy Town market on its website in a way that suggests an invitation to outsiders.
The really good news is that the food trucks, which plagued that area of the Oval, will not be returning, except for special events. In T&V, Garodnick commented, "There was just a level of concern that it was unsightly and made the Oval feel more commercial with corporate logos." Dan must be reading this blog.
50 comments:
Dan Garodnick sold tenants out. Period. He doesn't deserve tenants votes.
To Adam Rose: Fix up the dusty, dirty, dog filth ridden spot where the Greenmarket is located. It is an eyesore. Teanemts would like to hear what you intend to do about this ugly smear on the sourhside of the Oval.
Poster at 1:19 PM: AMEN to that! I couldn't stomach any food peddled on that filthy spot!
I am so hoping for a very, very hot summer this year so we can keep our three air conditioners blasting 24/7. The reason: they really drown all the noise from the Oval when those "music" events are taking place and, best of all, they drown out the noise from the students crammed into the apartments downstairs, upstairs and to the side of us. We never used to use the a/cs that much, even when it was very hot because we don't mind the heat and don't like to overdo the electricity consumption; now, however, it's a case of do what ever it takes to get a decent night's sleep when you're surrounded on three sides by party animals.
No he didn't. Not a lot of tenants read this thread or share the views here and I certainly think Dan Garodnick has our interests as much in heart as you do. This is mostly a blog for complaining, sometimes for important things, sometimes for ridiculous things. So by virtue of the fact you're here, chances are you don't like the farmers market or dogs. We certainly share our desire to keep this place affordable and for families and other responsible adults, but we don't share some of these picayune complaints.
There's a matching smear along PC Road. It's accentuated by a toppled street lamp post. One of the maintenance trucks backed over it about six months ago and it is still lying right where it fell--exposed wires and all.
Instead of taking it away or replacing it, they simply "shrined it off" with metal fencing. Not sure what the point of that is. Perhaps it remains there to mark the spot where they created the great compost heap.
At what point does compost just become garbage? I personally think we have reached it.
"I do have to note that at least one of the companies that will be at the market is promoting the Stuy Town market on its website in a way that suggests an invitation to outsiders."
This vendor jeopardizes the whole Green Market by breaking the rules. Which one is it?
Looks like the law doesn't apply to Grow NYC! They are advertising the farmers market to non-residents!
STUYVESANT TOWN GREENMARKET
>>This vendor jeopardizes the whole Green Market by breaking the rules. Which one is it?<<
B&Y Farms.
http://www.byfarms.com/
>>So by virtue of the fact you're here, chances are you don't like the farmers market or dogs.<<
You must not have read my post if you think I don't like the Farmers Market. I like dogs, but the complex has trouble with them and that trouble will increase as the dog population here increases.
Anon 1:15: Picayune complaints? Really?
Clearly you don't have a clue and have no business commenting here. What are you? A shill for Management? A shill for Dan Garodnick.
Picayune? FYI - The fact that the Oval has/is being turned into a non-stop 3-ring circus bothers A LOT of people here, people who want some to get away from the chaos and noise of the City and enjoy the peace and quiet this formerly wonderful oasis from the hustle and bustle used to provide. You call that Picayune?
>>No he didn't. Not a lot of tenants read this thread or share the views here....<<
For your information, this blog has a very healthy readership and is read (or monitored) by Garodnick's office, Town & Village, and others, outside of the tenants themselves. As for sharing the same views, I don't expect everyone to have the same opinion. Why should they?
Everyone of my neighbors reads this blog. They may not comment on it, but they read it because discuss the stuff STR posts and what people have to say on the blog.
Anon 4:15 PM - Not a lot of tenants read this thread or share the views here..
And exactly how would you know that? What a silly, self-serving statement. You have absolutely no idea how many people read this blog.
Oh, and if I haven't said it recently, thank you STR for the wonderful service that you provide all of us who are interested and concerned about what's going on in Stuyvesant Town and Peter Cooper Village. Your diligence and efforts are very much appreciated!
So by virtue of the fact you're here, chances are you don't like the farmers market or dogs
Anon 4:15 PM, are you kidding?
I for one enjoy the Greenmarket and like dogs, but that doesn't mean that I think it's OK for management to flout the law with respect to where the Greenmarket is located or for people to let their dogs pee and poop indiscriminately all over the grounds. And, FYI, I don't blame the dogs, I blame their clueless, ignoramus owners!! Them I don't like so much.
Adam Rose, are you reading this? If you are, it's time to put some low fencing back up to keep out the dogs who are, unfortunately, allowed to do their business EVERYWHERE. Better yet, how about enforcing the NYC curb your dog law?!
This blog provides a healthy venue for tenants to spread the word about what is happening across the complex. It's 80 acres, for gosh sakes! No way for all of us to know what's going on everywhere all of the time. I am thankful we have this outlet to communicate.
The gripes and complaints expressed here are real and based on facts. Doggie doo, brown lawns, noisy "Amenities." Please. People just want a place to live without being unnecessarily harassed or inconvenienced.
We don't have that right now. It would be great to get that back but I, for one, am not terribly optimistic. Until things improve, it is incumbent upon us all to share our experiences so that we can unite and try to improve the quality of life here for all.
waaahhh waahhhh wahhhh
If this Greenmarket is ONLY for residents and their guests, pray tell why does the GrowNYC website need to include a Google Map showing exactly where the Greenmarket in Stuyvesant Town is located? I would venture to say that 99.9% of people living here know where both the Oval and the Greenmarket are, so why the map? Now, that wouldn't be so the GENERAL PUBLIC can find the Stuyvesant Town Greenmarket, would it?!
And wouldn't you know it - surprise, surprise! - GrowNYC's website touting the Stuyvesant Town Greenmarket links to Management's website touting the Greenmarket: http://www.pcvst.com/events/signature-events/greenmarket.aspx. Nice bit of free marketing for Rose Associates and CW Capital, wouldn't you say?
"All of these companies are advertising to people off property. Let's all contact them with the news the greenmarket is for RESIDENTS AND THEIR GUESTS ONLY."
GOOD IDEA!!
I WROTE TO EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM, INCLUDING GROWNYC AND ROSE MANAGMENT! EVERYBODY ELSE SHOULD TOO. JUST LOOK FOR AND FILL OUT THE CONTACT US PAGE ON THEIR WEBSITES.
...waaahhh waahhhh wahhhh
To Anon 8:53 PM...your inanity shows you to be the kind of person who probably creates many of the unfortunate quality of life issues that the rest of us have to endure. Oh, how I long for the days when people like you who lived here were few and far between. Unfortunately, you and your kind are becoming more and more numerous here: selfish, self-absorbed, entitled, narcissistic, only in it for yourself. Pity.
Tw questions:
Why can't they put the Green Market on one of the sidewalks Loops? (Easier to clean & near the trucks.
Plant new grass. bring fence forward in front of play ground 12 ( The dirt, dust, dog pooping area is out of control & unsanitary for the kids who play in it)
You are all so bitter. Why spread such unhappiness? I'm perfectly happy here, with the Greenmarket and the dogs. I'm walking the same sidewalks and Oval as you and see a wonderful home.
Why are you so angry all the time? It's really sad to read, all this anger and bitterness.
Endure...really, you have to ENDURE living here? Then you really need to move. It's not going back to some idealized version that you have from your childhood that never really existed, period. You don't need to endure this any longer if you move out.
I love it here and love the cute dogs and the farmers market. I am staying and hope to spend the rest of my life here.
What is with the noisy truck on the 14th Street Loop? Just got back from an all night rave a few hours ago and want to catch some shut eye until 5 or 6 this evening and I'm aroused by this??
What's next - I won't be able to take my Sunday naps because of concerts or something?
>>You are all so bitter. Why spread such unhappiness? I'm perfectly happy here, with the Greenmarket and the dogs. I'm walking the same sidewalks and Oval as you and see a wonderful home.<<
You must not be reading the blog correctly if you think everyone is "all so bitter." I'm assuming by now that you are one and the same individual that's posted a follow-up comment reflecting the same opinion. I do suspect some shilling going on.
There are obvious problems in this complex, as well has obvious positive perks. Do you see a "wonderful home" everywhere you walk in Stuy Town or Peter Cooper Village? Do you see the poor shape of the grounds? (To change in the future, hopefully.) Do you see the southern part of the Oval area and the pathetic ground there, where the market is held? Do you, perhaps, not live around the Oval, so are free of noise pollution during the summer concerts? Do you see your "cute dogs" regularly pissing on the plants and flowers of Stuy Town/PCV? Are you THAT aware or unaware?
Also, do you not see how previous Market Rate tenants are being jerked around with rents before a solution to the Roberts decision is reached? Do you not see the daily scores of students at the ST rental office? The accumulation of discarded furniture along the loops during the summer move-out weeks?
Since, as of this writing, there is no notation that the greenmarket is for residents and their guests only, I guess that the pcvst.com website is not part of the CW/Rose "marketing material.
This is a complete sham.
Your latter point is far more compelling, and is a reason for this blog to keep plugging away. But then you dilute a real public service with whiny complaints that detract from the ultimate goals. No, the concerts are NOT noise pollution to me--I affirmatively like them. The grounds look great to me (well, in progress right now, but yes, overall, they look great, and I don't value plain grass everywhere as you do, over other uses--I like seeing soil at times. Yes, truly. I don't have a problem with that strip at all if it has other uses, though some gravel could keep it from getting muddy. But no, that isn't even a problem to me at all. In the least. Unlandscaped soil is not something to start a war over to be sure.
And dogs go to the bathroom. All over this city. I still love them. Hopefully most owners follow the leash/curb laws.
If you don't mind the noise from the summer concerts then one can guess that you do not live around the Oval. Correct? You know, of course, that the summer events are not that well attended by residents, considering the thousands that live here. So for the joy of a few....
If you think that the grounds "look great," you don't walk around ST/PCV that much. (I urge you to take a tour of the back areas of ST/PCV for a surprising education.) Either that or you are a shill.
>>Why can't they put the Green Market on one of the sidewalks Loops? (Easier to clean & near the trucks.<<
They'd have to close traffic around the loop and also the market wouldn't be so centrally located where residents walking through would HAVE to come across it.
>>Plant new grass. bring fence forward in front of play ground 12 ( The dirt, dust, dog pooping area is out of control & unsanitary for the kids who play in it)<<
I fear we've lost this area of the Oval forever.
BTW, Anon 11:44AM, I also like to see rich soil, but in many areas of the complex there is no soil but dirt, bare ground where nothing can possibly grow at this point. I see that every day when I look out my window.
You know, someone not agreeing with your bleak view of our home is not a shill. I like it here, I have walked around and I think, it's quite pretty.
You wrote that the grounds "look great." That has as much sense as if you told me right now that the sun is blazing outside and it's 90 degrees. Please, please, inform CW Capital that you think the grounds "look great" because they are on course for trying to upgrade them, and I'm sure that it's going to be expensive. You can save them some money that they can perhaps use for adding more summer concerts.
It looks like landscaping is going on, but there are trees and flowers and bushes--it really looks great. I don't know why you are so hellbent on complaining all the time?
You must miss the posts where I take nice photos of the complex.
Again, "it really looks great".... Well, some parts do look very nice, but to state what you state means your sense of aesthetics is off or else, yes, you are a shill. One or the other.
But, if this blog just voices complaints all the time, complaints you strenuously disagree with, why do you hang around? Shouldn't you be reading and posting on the official ST/PCV Facebook page?
Valley Shepherd refers to us as "Stuyv Village". Gee, thanks!
I assume all these vendors items will arrive by trucks? Will they now occupy the Oval Lanes, with the blessings of the Security Forces. Limited parking as is, I see sidewalk parking, crosswalks, etc. Can the vendors bring their own golf carts too? The sight of a maintenance man on a basketed beach cruiser is a long lost practice, now the plumbers have SUV golf carts and pickup trucks on the paths are the norm.
OPEN LETTER TO COUNCILMAN DAN GARODNICK
Many tenants are very unhappy that the Greenmarket will soon be returning to it's formerly illegal - now magically legal! - location on the Oval. There is absolutely no way that this Greenmarket qualifies for "accessory use" designation and is exempt from being considered illegal, commercial activity occurring inside of Stuyvesant Town.
Really, what more is needed to convince you, Councilman Garodnick, and the Department of Buildings (which you have now, apparently and unfortunately, misled about the situation) that this Greenmarket does NOT qualify for "accessory use" status and will absolutely-and-without-question be OPEN TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC other than the fact that the GrowNYC website (overseer of the Stuyvesant Town Greenmarket and many others) and SEVEN of the Stuyvesant Town Greenmarket's exhibiting vendor's websites currently LIST AND PROMOTE the Stuyvesant Town Greenmarket on their VERY PUBLIC (in fact, open to the entire world!) websites? To say nothing of the fact that Management's equally PUBLIC - open to the entire world! - Stuyvesant Town AND Peter Cooper Village websites do the same.
You and everyone, including Rose Associates and C W Capital, understand that virtually every activity that takes place on the Oval is frequented by outsiders because nothing is done by our Management company, Rose Associates, to stop them from entering the property and attending events. In fact, Rose Associates and C W Capital consider these as prime, windfall opportunities to market this property/apartments to outsiders and so welcome them here almost without limitation.
Many of us are very disappointed that you have colluded with Rose Associates and C W Capital to allow them to get away with this charade. We believe that GrowNYC and SEVEN of the exhibiting vendor's actions, as well as Management's previous lack of interest in controlling who visited the Greenmarket and presumed continued lack of monitoring same, violate any "accessory use" exemption that might have been afforded the Greenmarket.
Allowing the bogus "accessory use" designation to stand is A MOCKERY, A SHAM, AN AFFRONT AND A DISGRACE and tenants would like to know what YOU, Councilman Garodnick, are going to do to right this wrong that you have agreed to allow Rose Associates and C W Capital to perpetrate here?
Tenants concerned about our ever-diminishing right to the quiet enjoyment of our homes and about upholding the laws of NYC eagerly await your reply.
I eagerly await Garodnick having to get a real job. I think his days in public office will soon be coming to an end. What a failure and a disappointment. He doesn't give a damn about PCV/ST except to the extent he can profit from it.
A tad dramatic, don't you think?
No, it's not a "tad dramatic"; it's right on point, but apparently those willfully ignorant about the laws of NYC and the reasons for those laws will never understand this issue.
I bet that you'd be the first one to be screaming "Bloody murder!" if our overlords decided to break a NYC law that negatively affected YOU, however!
Garodnick is only a junior councilman. He's not the president or, more significantly for New Yorkers, the mayor (who has all the power he can buy and we all know how much that is). I doubt Dan G. has much power at all in matters like this. Rose and CW probably don't take much (if any) notice of him.
A tad dramatic, don't you think?
Not if you understand that at least some of YOUR RENT DOLLARS go to subsidize all of the 500+ social activities (according to Management's websites) that go on here, including the Greenmarket, ANON 11:20 AM.
I, for one, would love to have NO social activities on the Oval. There's a whole, big city out there with endless social activities for those who want to partake. I would love to be able to just sit in relative peace and quiet on the Oval and get away from the non-stop buzz of the City. That's how it used to be and I loved it. Alas, those days seem to be gone for the moment, but I hope not forever. Perhaps when this place gets sold - which it will - and Rose Associates get the boot - which I pray for - then there will peace and quiet again on the Oval.
Garodnick with his grand standing press conference for backing a endorsed tenant takeover, then political double speak regarding matters affecting the quality of residents, & now his total disappearing act. Politically this bum couldn't beat an egg. Good Riddance to you sir
This high dudgeon is sounding so hysterical. This is not a travesty, really. Not to me anyway.
It is very concerning that Dan and the TA have not made more announcements since the big TADOO ABOUT the bid.
At the very least, they have to say something. It's beyond ridiculous.
Anonymous said:
"At the very least, they have to say something. It's beyond ridiculous."
I don't understand all the drama and hyperbole here either. These things are complicated. At least the TA and Garodnick are out there trying to make something happen.
"At least the TA and Garodnick are out there trying to make something happen."
Oh, boy! You bet they are!
It's gonna be ugly but they're gonna give it a shot.
What are Garodnick & the TA trying to make happen? A bad deal. A thoroughly bad deal. Either these guys haven't a clue about how to negotiate or Danny is just trying to line the pockets of his buddies at Paul Weiss and Moelis & get some contributions back. The TA Board? Just a bunch of patsies along for a short ride to feel like hotshots.
"Either these guys haven't a clue about how to negotiate or Danny is just trying to line the pockets of his buddies at Paul Weiss and Moelis & get some contributions back. The TA Board? Just a bunch of patsies along for a short ride to feel like hotshots."
I think that is very harsh and unjustified. Just my opinion.
And 11:11, you would do so much than them, wouldn't you? Why don't you show us and run for TA board? Or just thank them for their service if you aren't going to actually do it yourself.
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