I don't understand why the TA is still hovering around the idea of conversion and actively hoping and working for it. Do you seriously think that CWCapital, in a sale, is going to handicap a potential buyer with conversion nonsense? Don't you think that the best scenario for a seller is to afford the buyer the prospect of doing what the buyer may wish to do with the property?
And take a look at the property, now that the foliage is gone from the trees: THESE ARE THE PROJECTS. Fairly ugly looking, institutional buildings. Despite the gimmicks of an ice rink or an "indoor" basketball court, these projects only make sense if the property is affordable and structured for the working class. Otherwise, only the land is of supreme value, which means that sooner or later, these buildings, with all their old structural problems, are going to be torn down, replaced by modern high towers.
Right now the "New Stabilizers" are paying market-rate prices for a complex that is inhabited more and more by students (herded several into an apartment), where the laundry facilities are mediocre, there's dog shit everywhere, the walkways are cracked, delivery packages are being stolen, and where THERE ARE NO DOORMEN! You are paying for luxury living, but are not living in luxury.
The "New Stabilizers" are no different then Tishman Speyer. Both pay a lot of money to be here then do all sorts of ugly things to evict the Rent Stabilized community that stabilized PCVST for 50 years.
ReplyDeleteNo difference between Robbie Speyer and "New Stabilizers".
STR, today I hand-delivered a package to someone in another building because it had been sitting in the lobby of my building for a week. Somebody had ripped the stamps off of it (must have been fancy stamps that his/her kids would like) and left it there. Because of the missing stamps, there was no way the P.O. was going to re-deliver it. This is not the first time I've seen mail that has been placed in the wrong mail box sitting there with the stamps ripped off, though usually it is foreign stamps.I ask you, what kind of a place is this now that people do stuff like that? Because of the constant turnover and the directory boards never being updated, a ton of mail is dumped on the ledges in the lobby every day. The postal workers don't even try anymore.
ReplyDeleteAs for the laundries being mediocre, I beg to differ. They are ABOMINABLE!
With respect to CW's role, they & F Mac & F Mae won't care about anything but the money. They couldn't care less about any deal between the sponsor and the community. Just tell them how much they're going to get.
ReplyDeleteWith respect to touting a conversion, backing out of the deal with Brookfield or not touting it would essentially be breaking with Garodnick who is really the architect of this whole thing. Three years ago in particular, the TA knew from nothing about these deals. For this TA board, to all general appearances the only thing they have going for them is their close relationship with the councilman which they see as a big deal so they'll do nothing seen as harming that. If you accept the premise that there can and should be something like a TA-led bid, I can see the logic in Garodnick's thinking and in the deal worked out with Brookfield.. On the other hand, if you see this so-called tenant-led bid as ineffective and actually detrimental to the community and the functioning of a good TA, then the premise fails and should be to be abandoned.
Come over to PCV and check out the area on the 23rd St side of the fountain. Almost no grass left. A complete dog run.
ReplyDelete>>The "New Stabilizers" are no different then Tishman Speyer. Both pay a lot of money to be here then do all sorts of ugly things to evict the Rent Stabilized community that stabilized PCVST for 50 years.<<
ReplyDeleteWhat ugly things?
I know some "new stabilizers." Yes, they're paying lots but they'd rather it went toward equity in their apartments because they really do want to be here. They are not the problem. I'm not personally keen to own, but I wish we could own it ourselves one way or another with some sort of equitable plan and get rid of the blood-sucking scum in charge now and likely to follow CW. Then we could get rid of the short-termers and work toward restoring competence and civility.
ReplyDeleteWhy all the negativity? REJOICE!
ReplyDeleteI just received the interest on my Rent Security Deposit....$1.30...woohoo...now the dilemma is where to spend it? Perhaps a fancy dinner with my honey...a Caribbean cruise...a new set of threads...oh the myriad of choices! Wait I know! I'll buy a roll of paper towels to wipe the dog sh*t off my shoes. Nothing brightens my day like going into the elevator in the morning and stepping into some pungent, freshly laid feces. A WONDERFUL 2015 to you STR. You are a marvelous asset to the community and deserving of all our gratitude and respect. Thank you!
Garodnick being the architect of the whole Brookfield deal is everything government officials are not supposed to do with their offices. Aren't there NY and or Federal laws against this type of behavior? At some point after years of obvious evidence of destruction to people evicted and property, trees, open space killed and reconfigured does one say this is not a good plan for the people living here now. How many lives have to be hurt from being uprooted or being charged illegal rents? I read Dan's open letter and it makes no sense that someone buying coffee where there once was open space and tall trees is still fooling himself and trying too fool others with words to the contrary. Are there no lawyers in NY who can help the tenants with this criminal real estate grab who aren't a member of the anti-tenant group REBNY? Are all lawyers with real estate expertise in NY anti-tenant members?
ReplyDeleteThe biggest issues are the untold multitudinous fraudulent charges for rent.
ReplyDeleteGovernor Cuomo's Tenant Protection Unit is doing some good work. Residents at PCVST need to file overcharge complaints with DHCR and TPU. 2015 is a big year for Cuomo's TPU. Tenants need TPU and TPU needs tenants to support it in 2015..
ReplyDeletehttp://www.cityandstateny.com/157/law-and-order-tpu.html#.VLUU2MlKiSo
Nearly three years later, Goldstein says, the TPU’s record “proves what we’ve always thought—that there were flagrant violation of rent laws.”
Responding to tenant concerns about IAIs, the TPU also launched audits of owners who had applied for and received those rent increases— forcing owners to document the costs they claim justified hiking the rent. It is this function that anchors property owners’ gripes about the TPU.
“For a long time there’s been very vocal concern from the tenant movement about the lack of enforcement of the rent laws,” says Katie Goldstein, the executive director of New York Tenants & Neighbors. “From our members we had seen, really, lots of violations of the rent laws. And so we wanted to see increased enforcement.”
Separately the TPU re-listed 28,000 units of rent-regulated housing that had fallen off the rolls because owners had neglected to keep them registered. “Currently there is no repercussion if landlords don’t register their units,” says Goldstein. “[TPU] was trying to get units to be registered and get them to the legal rent.”
Tenants can get their deregulated apartments re-regulated. Get their money back on overcharges going back to when they moved in (there is no 4 year limit).
Tenant advocates are hopeful that the TPU will get better funding in Albany this year. Since the Legislature did not create it in the first place, the RSA does not expect the TPU to figure into the rent regulations debate. The action may instead be in that courtroom in Brooklyn, where the RSA-backed suit is set to go to trial in April.
FILE WITH DHCR AND TPU
MARKET RATE TENANTS NEED DETAILED AUDITS TO SHOW THEY ARE OWED THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS FROM RENT LAW VIOLATIONS TO DEREGULATE THE APARTMENTS. GO GET YOUR AUDIT AND GET YOUR MONEY BACK EVERYONE!
This is all very true, market raters are now the sole source of profit, simply put turning RS tenants into MR tenants is the simplest wa y to increase their bottom line. Why would CW want to leave when they have such a cozy managing paycheck, do whatever they want construction wise under the MCI rules.
ReplyDeleteThe only way they leave is by receiving another "Tishman" offer.
I can only speak for my building. Almost all of the families in the expensive renovated apartments that were referred to by the TA as new stabilizers (ie: new long term tenant families) were forced out by mid-lease rent increases post-Roberts settlement. I haven't see the term used much since then, probably because my building isn't unique in that practically all new tenants are students or very young and apparently don't care or can't be bothered about the QOL issues that drive you and us old timers crazy.
ReplyDeleteThat would seem to change things, conversion-wise as does the $4.7 price tag that CWC is touting in the press. I'd assume that the TA and co. has since recalculated things. I'd also assume that CWC/Fortress has a long range plan. I'd also assume that what happens in June with rent regs is a variable. That the mayor's office is another variable. That Chuck Schumer's promise that Fannie/Freddie $$ will not be involved in another over-leveraged deal is a variable. That the RE market in NY could cool or tumble again - maybe the That the economic slowdown in the EU and China is another factor - and what nay be a NY real estate bubble is another variable. We are a variable too - will there be enough of us long-termers around to still care about a deal and have an impact on it. That the GOP retains the majority in the State Senate in a presidential non-midterm election in 2016 is another variable.
That's a lot of variables. Maybe CWC/Fortress has them all covered. Maybe not. I'd guess *not* since G Guterman still thought he had a shot up until tenants didn't show up for his party --- and he STILL has his crew post comments pretty regularly on this site to keep the pot boiling. So since nobody really knows what's gonna happen, you included, it makes sense to keep a foot in it. If for no other reason than to let all interested parties know, including the press, that enough of us have a stake in it, that we actually give a shit about what what eventually happens here.
>>I know some "new stabilizers." Yes, they're paying lots but they'd rather it went toward equity in their apartments because they really do want to be here.<<
ReplyDeleteI understand that. But the only entity talking about conversion is the TA. CWCapital doesn't seem to be interested. And, as I asked in the post, why would CW hamper a potential buyer with a conversion? So it will be up to the buyer to turn this place into a condo, which will mean that the buyer will voluntarily opt out of turning this property into something WAY more valuable: a brand, new high-rise STPCV. Perhaps in the distant future, this community will go condo, but by then, it will be very UNAFFORDABLE to most of us here, even the "new stabilizers."
>>A WONDERFUL 2015 to you STR<<
ReplyDeleteSame to you!
"Almost all of the families in the expensive renovated apartments that were referred to by the TA as new stabilizers (ie: new long term tenant families) were forced out by mid-lease rent increases post-Roberts settlement. I haven't see the term used much since then, probably because my building isn't unique in that practically all new tenants are students or very young and apparently don't care or can't be bothered about the QOL issues that drive you and us old timers crazy."
ReplyDeleteIn my PCV building I've noticed a shift in the past few years. Yes, I see a lot of students/20somethings, but also many more young families. This may be a difference between ST and PCV.
No one knows what TPU is. Why not be clear and concise. What is it , where is it what do they do???????????
ReplyDelete"Garodnick being the architect of the whole Brookfield deal is everything government officials are not supposed to do with their offices. Aren't there NY and or Federal laws against this type of behavior?"
ReplyDeleteYou raise a very good point here. Garodnick is blatantly abusing his office by being so entrenched in this "deal." He is working, not for his constituents, but for his former law firm and a couple of other big law firms who have an interest in this deal and their and his enrichment is his main concern. I think that he should be investigated and the truth laid bare. If ever there was a wolf in sheep's clothing ....
Over the past 3 years we keep covering the same subjects. With respect to the 'luxury' aspects, red brick buildings with no doormen are not luxury, but starting with T-S right into CW, like it or not, dog shit and dog runs notwithstanding, PVCST grounds and their amenities do appeal to many who would be newcomers. No other residential areas in Manhattan have grass, grounds, birds and squirrels within them....great for families with kids And for a great many newcomers the new amenities are big pluses. Consider from the point of view of newcomers: an exercise facility, kiddie playroom, ice rink, cafe, study room and some really nifty improved playgrounds. And a lot of newcomers will like being able to have pets. But so far as CR is concerned, none of this is really for the people who are here now. There will be a time when there IS a conversion. Just not now. By the time it occurs in 5-10 yrs, many apartments will be vacant when the landlord switches over to all legal rents. The outsiders who buy then will have some real money & all us middle class RS pikers will have been driven out by MCIs and the MRs will be driven out by the move to legal rents.
ReplyDelete1:45
ReplyDelete8:05 says in the first line what it is....
Governor Cuomo's Tenant Protection Unit
There is a lot of information when I just googled Tenant Protection Unit
There used to be many more squirrels and trees and birds and grounds and grass. They are slowly killing it all. 4:13 watch as the years go by, all those things you love will dwindle and disappear as they have since 2007.
ReplyDeleteTPU is the Tenant Protection Unit. The link to the article gives some of TPU's results. Thank you to the commentator who posted that.
ReplyDeleteSomeone last year posted comments on the architecture and design of the buildings and the landscape. It was beautifully designed before they installed the strip mall in the Oval. I like the architecture and space (what is left of it). To me the glass towers are desperate wannabe attention-whore-ish while the PCVST architecture is or was quiet reserved discreet idyllic nirvana to raise a family - an oasis in the concrete jungle.
ReplyDeleteI liked that the rest of the city thought we were projects and left us alone. We didn't need them to know about our oasis because once they discover it they will ruin it....and did.
What CW thinks of CW
ReplyDeletehttp://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/CWCapital-LLC-Reviews-E140245.htm
Back in June 2014, Fortress (CW's owner) was intent on 'buying' the community via a foreclosure. They went into the equity market looking for investors. Their plan was scrapped due to mezzanine lender pressures but the plan unveiled showed how they saw the highest/best use for the property.
ReplyDeleteThe plan was to remain as rental. The plan called to continue and expand the current practices through expiration of the J-51 (June 2020) and the subsequent burn out (2 year leases) , taking the property until it was free of every lease constrained by Robert (June 2022).
I am one of the 'new stabilizers' albeit a tenant who has been here since 2000. I was hopeful to own but gave up on that hope after I saw the details of Fortress' plan.
Fortress' plan was based on 50% leverage (debt) at a lower interest rate and equity with a very small return during the 'hold'. The money-making would occur from (1) the conversion of long-term unit converting to 'upgraded' units and (2) the return of free market rents to all Robert protected units after June 2020. NOTE: this plan has very little to do with current in-place rent and everything to do with how the landlord can raise rents over time. Sound familiar? can anyone say tishman speyer?
Aside: I had lunch with a few well known real estate investors one day. The subject of Sty Town arose. Their thoughts on highest/best use? Tear it down and build real luxury.
I tell you that to tell you this: the next tishman is going to make the old Robbie Boy look like an altar boy.
As long as the complex is owned by anyone other than tenants, the emphasis will always be on bottom line. Not quality of life. Prove me wrong.
ReplyDeleteWell 4:13 isn't that the reason we should be fighting the MCI charges instead of being door mats?
ReplyDeleteThey walk all over us like door mats.
I don't know how the "New Stabilizers" can be equated with TS. That seems like a bit of a stretch to me!
ReplyDeleteHas anybody noticed that the Rent Stabilization Association (a landlords group that is strongly OPPOSED to rent stabilization) is running its deceptive ads again, trying to kid the public that they "care?" They remind me of those ultra anti-abortion groups who would run "clinics" offering "abortion counseling" in order to bully women into not terminating their pregnancies. Their whole M.O. was deception.
Law article: http://www.law360.com/articles/610967/stuy-town-juniors-kick-5-4b-loan-fight-to-state-court
ReplyDeleteIf someone has full access, might be interesting to know more. Basically, just says the case does not come under federal jurisdiction, needs to go to NY State court.
Huge suckers!
ReplyDeletePCVST Net Operating Income went from $108,270,000.00 in 2007 to $177,520,000.00 in 2013 and up again to $190,280,000.00 First Quarter 2014.
Almost double from 2007 to 2014.
It takes a lot of questionable acts to move the numbers like that and that fast.
Income from Base Rents went from $242,420,000 in 2007 to $336,970,000 in 2013 (almost $100Million more).
Then miraculously from December 2013 to First Quarter 2014 Base Rents jumped another $20Million to $356,310,000.
Between 2007 and 1Q 2014 income from Base Rents increased by 50%, over $100Million.
Other Income tripled but is so insignificant still barely making a dent in comparison, in 2007 Other Income was $6million and in 1Q 2014 $23Million (projected annualized basis).
The Debt Service remained constant each year at $193,020,000.
Every year the property maintained a shortfall.
Volatility in the reported capital expense has distorted some of the NCF numbers.
Despite increases in the property’s performance, the appraised value rose only 3%, year-over-year. The latest appraised value was reported at $3.5billion as of September 2014, up from $3.4 billion, as of last September and $2.8billion in 2010.
We all know this is in contrast to the $4.4billion valuation that was used to calculate the transfer tax when the property changed ownership in June.
How is no one investigating any of this?
REBNY brags best years ever and growth and success and when needed cries tears of needing help during the economic recovery (which only people are struggling to recover and RE is doing quite well).
ReplyDeleteREBNY wanted ILSA reversed. It was originally passed in 1969 to protect customers from being fraudulently sold property due to misleading advertising, began being applied to vertical condominiums in the 1980s. However, following the real estate market crash in 2008, buyers were able to take advantage of a loophole in ILSA which allowed them to back out of pre-crash contracts.
Sure enough as a commentator posted earlier, Schumer and Maloney said screw the consumer protections and kill all the loopholes that favor consumers because only REBNY and RE (Wall Street and Big Business) can have loopholes.
On September 26, 2014, President Obama signed H.R. 2600 – introduced and passed as a result of advocacy efforts by Senator Charles Schumer, U.S. Rep. Carolyn Maloney, and REBNY – into law, which exempts condominium developments from ILSA filing and registration requirements, and in doing so, gives condominium developers and their lenders a greater level of certainty as the economy continues to recover.
Passed in record time. Screw the people, they can have zero advantages. But REBNY can have all the loopholes they desire.
These two are unbelievable. This is not a government that serves the people. It is a government that works for the very wealthy.
No doubt Schumer and Maloney will be fundraising for REBNY tomorrow at the $1100 per person gala to raise money to fight against the people in Albany on the rent protections too. These guys screw over the people buying condos and the people renting too.
Time for all new people in government. Am voting out everyone across the ballot next election.
http://www.rew-online.com/2015/01/14/hard-work-paying-off-with-real-estate-victories-in-government/
I don't understand why people on this blog are always trying to convince market-rate tenants that the place sucks. The rental market is highly efficient. They have looked at the alternatives and made a decision for themselves. Don't you think that they are able to handle this decision without your input?
ReplyDelete1:45 TPU is the Tenant Protection Unit. 8:05 clearly and concisely gave that information in the first line in their attempt to give us useful information and your insulting criticism isn't helping, only hurting those who seem to be trying to help us. Why not stop the insults hurled at those who are helping tenants besides we are smart enough to have figured it out on our own by doing an internet search on TPU NYC or TPU NY and Tenant Protection Unit comes right up.
ReplyDeleteGood idea to send complaints to both units, DHCR and TPU. Inundate the city on the record with all they are turning a blind eye to in PCVST.
"And for a great many newcomers the new amenities are big pluses"
ReplyDeleteBut what newcomers don't see and get is that before they moved here this was a peaceful, tranquil non-commercial escape within a city that already has the greatest amenities in the world. We had the best of both worlds, a peaceful tranquil, extremely safe, non-commercial community within the city with the world's greatest amenities. No commercial amenity here can hold a candle to the amenities NYC has to offer so PCVST now has subpar amenities compared to just down the block and long gone is the peaceful and very safe and very stable community that once raised generations of families.
Smart people install ice rinks in their back yard when the world's greatest rinks Rockefeller and Wollman Rink in Central Park, are minutes away. PCVST has no shortage of access to commercial amenities and some of the best in the world just steps away simply from being in Manhattan. What made PCVST special was the absence of commercial amenities, the escape from commercialism, while the closeness to the best amenities the world has to offer - NYC. With each amenity added to the property there is less special about the property and less real value to the property.
Politicians attending REBNY Liar's Ball tonight need to be watched closely this year and their actions of last year reviewed for what earned them the invitation to the gala. Politicians attending need to write a check to a reputable tenant organization as the Met Council equaling their REBNY ticket price and addition PR value to REBNY of their appearance at the GALA.
ReplyDeleteMet Council is an organization that is doing right by Tenants.
http://metcouncilonhousing.org/news_and_issues/tenant_newspaper/2013/november/rebny_subpoenaed
At some point the fraudulent rent charges by landlords need to stop being the burden of a person to fight in civil courts or handled with a settlement. Its past time for those responsible for upholding the laws to stop this epidemic assault on NYC tenants with criminal convictions for the crimes by landlords.
ReplyDeleteRent Charge Frauds hurt everyone and puts the public at risk.
It is time to move these civil matters to the appropriate courts, Criminal Courts!!
Hoylman Applauds Reports of Investigation by Attorney General Schneiderman Into Alleged Tenant Harassment on W 49th Street
Posted by Brad Hoylman on Tuesday, January 13th, 2015
New York, NY - Today, state Senator Brad Hoylman (D-Manhattan) released the following statement in response to a report in the New York Daily News that Attorney General Eric Schneiderman is investigating a Manhattan landlord for deluging rent-stabilized tenants with numerous frivolous lawsuits and eviction proceedings. Some of the tenants cited in the report currently live in apartments on West 49th Street in Hell's Kitchen, which is part of the 27th State Senate District that Hoylman represents.
Senator Brad Hoylman said: "Today’s report of an investigation by Attorney General Schneiderman into the frivolous lawsuits brought forth by an unscrupulous landlord underscores the critical importance of protecting tenants throughout our city from harassment. These excessive lawsuits and eviction proceedings are an age old tactic and an apparent attempt to evict rent-stabilized tenants. They’re also a clear violation of the law and I thank the Attorney General for his efforts on this important issue.”
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ag-probes-landlord-accused-harassing-tenants-article-1.2075549
Another Useful Review on Yelp
ReplyDelete1.0 star rating
1/14/2015
DON'T DO IT! Just don't do this to yourself. Positives: 1. The apartment was actually nice (at least the modern ones...the classic ones, you can find really anywhere else in the city). 2. If you are fortunate enough to live near 14th and 1st, you are close to the L train, which makes getting places a lot easier than if you were to live in Alphabet City. BUT, the opportunity cost of putting up with the crappy management is 100% not worth your frustration.
This place STEALS YOUR MONEY. For example, it took us 4 months to get our security deposit back. FOUR MONTHS. That's also not even the worst part. They charged us an extra $2000 for....not sure what. And when we repeatedly called and emailed them to find out about it, we either never got an answer back or got directed to someone who didn't know the answer. And when I say repeatedly, I mean at least 1-2 correspondences every month in the time span of over a year and a half.
Also, if you notice, the only relatively good reviews that you see on this page are from people who have not lived there that long. I was distracted by the nice no maintenance fees and the nice granite top kitchen too. The honeymoon phase lasted about a month. Then, I realized what kinds of people really run this place.
PCVST, get it together.
STR at 10:39
ReplyDeleteFor one thing the MR and TA Board had separate and secret TA meetings to discuss the conversion that did not include us RS members. After that they lost all trust.
W.C. Fields was right...there's a sucker born every minute...
ReplyDeleteWhen/where did this secret TA/MR meeting take place? Did you have to perform the secret MR handshake to gain entry?
ReplyDelete"New Stabilizer" here.
ReplyDeletea) If it stays rental, yeah, its a problem, since I'm still paying the preferential rent and not the full legal which is really large even for me. Not a lot of families young or otherwise could carry that. Only dorms of students with low QoL could afford that.
b) Not worried about the whole project being gutted and turned to luxury. Cool-off is inevitable, there are already signs if one is following the economic/financial undercurrents, not the real estate news. Maybe fortress is prepping for the next cycle since this one is already played out. But that sounds like a low probability trade.
In other words, got to blockade the NYU encroachment that is the only enemy here.
7:29 ?? huh? cool off of what? Manhattan real estate? We wish. WON'T HAPPEN.
ReplyDelete"I don't understand why people on this blog are always trying to convince market-rate tenants that the place sucks. The rental market is highly efficient. They have looked at the alternatives and made a decision for themselves. Don't you think that they are able to handle this decision without your input?"
ReplyDeleteNot that the place "sucks", but that the place is a dump. That it is a dump is not open for debate. The property has shit and piss throughout, laundry facilities that on any given day can be inoperable, frat and sorority houses that disturb tenants at all ours of the day and night , etc. This is the definition of a dump. One can't (or shouldn't) say that it "sucks" because that would be a subjective assessment. You are well within your rights to think that all of these realities are just wonderful and it's no one's business but yours. If you or any other market rater wishes to buy a bucket of shit, have at it. But yes, this place has indeed become a dump.
ReplyDelete"In other words, got to blockade the NYU encroachment that is the only enemy here."
Agree.
That NYU PCVST deal is one helluva corrupt land grab. Totally agree 6:58.
ReplyDeleteStuy Town Reporter said...
ReplyDelete>>The "New Stabilizers" are no different then Tishman Speyer. Both pay a lot of money to be here then do all sorts of ugly things to evict the Rent Stabilized community that stabilized PCVST for 50 years.<<
What ugly things?
January 12, 2015 at 10:39 PM
In an Oval building, a group of tenants who are part of the TA buyers spy on RS tenants and makes false noise complaint reports against RS tenants with the campus security. It was a student party on the floor and several of the market rate neighbors got together and called campus security and told them it was the RS tenant on our floor - a quiet, nice lady who has been very nice to us students (it wasn't our loud party. we are quiet students.) The market rate and buyer neighbors have regular meetings. They are the same ones who called on the elderly lady.