Many people who live in Stuyvesant Town work during the week. Not as many as used to, because we now have a very significant student and senior population, but the Monday through Friday workers still exist as tenants, and one would think in sizable numbers. If Stuyvesant Town offers anything particularly special to these residents, it's a chance to relax and unwind in the relative peace and quiet of the Oval on Saturday and Sunday. Many times, I see residents of ALL ages taking advantage of good weather and the Oval, sitting around reading, having conversations, playing with their kids, tending their newborn, contemplating nature or their own thoughts, or picnicking or sunbathing on the Oval Lawn.
And yet the Powers That Be consistently feel that something MUST BE HAPPENING in the Oval or else it's all a failure. They have even used "something is always happening" as a PR mantra, oblivious to the fact that for many residents this "happening" intrudes upon residents' own weekend in Stuy Town. Furthermore, residents are smart enough (well, most of them) to make their lives as "happening" as they desire, without the Powers That Be dictating what that activity will be and forcing its effects upon the entire Oval area.
Most of these events, from a crowd gathering point of view, are embarrassing failures, made more painful by the amount of money spent on them. It's a good day for the Powers That Be if a couple of hundred people show up of the thousands upon thousands that live here. Sometimes, barely a hundred or so residents and their guests turn up. Not a good ratio.
Why do it?
For two main reasons, I think:
1) Events are a selling point in advertising and the future sale of this property. Despite the reality that the overwhelming number of residents here do not attend these events and that many residents who live around the Oval loathe them because of the disruptive noise that flows into their apartments, the Powers That Be will stubbornly keep on churning out these events because they fear that in not making Stuy Town a place where "something is always happening" interest in Stuy Town will lessen, as will the value of Stuy Town as an asset.
2) It keeps employed the people who craft and work on these events, so it's a paycheck that these people desperately do not want to lose, and we, the residents, suffer because of it.
Tomorrow, Saturday, if it's a nice day and you decide to spend the morning at the Oval, you will have to compete with another "event"--this one the outdoor screening of the U.S. Open beginning at 11am. Which probably means a set-up an hour or two before then, with the Oval Fountain, the central axis of those who want to relax, being turned off in the morning. Worse, afterward there will be something called "New Fox Tuesdays Private Outdoor Screening." No, it's not coverage from Fox News, but rather a promotion for Fox's Tuesday TV line-up, a promotion in tandem with Verizon's Fios. That's right, a commercial push and pimping out Stuy Town right on the Oval to further fuck-up your Saturday if you routinely like taking advantage of the Oval.
Quite simply, having events continually "happening" on the Oval is a telling display of the disregard and paternalism that the Powers That Be have toward the Stuyvesant Town community. I've no beef against the occasional event, but it's now gotten to the level of clear madness, with the Powers That Be not cognizant of the fact that they are now ensconced in the mad house, from which they plan out their events and issue their dictates.
We have wonderful playgrounds in this community and a wonderful "park" and a beautiful fountain. This is what others, living in the city outside of PCVST, envy. We have everything that can make living here particularly appealing.
So, for heaven's sake, PLEASE LEAVE US ALONE with this cavalcade of events!
64 comments:
I agree, the occasional relevant event would make sense but gratuitously clogging the Oval with promotional events for outside commercial ventures - The US Open and its sponsors? Verizon? FOX? (:gag:) - is not only inappropriate, but insulting.
If this is all about bringing in new sources of revenue, it's the sort of desperate self-destructive move that ought not to be happening with the money they're making. But I bet that it's all being just handed over for free to these commercial entities so that they can cram their ads down your throats.
But then again, they never ask what anyone really wants, it seems. They just do whatever works best for their concessionaires and other country club pals. All because MetLife & Tishman made a mess of everything in their fraudulent deal.
YOu betcha. The point is to bring NON RESIDENTS into see the place, heaer the music, etc etc and then realize 'gee honey, let's rent one of these'....
and let's not forget how much the under 25 set DOES enjoy this hoopla. So obvious.
To be fair, I mostly see older residents at such sport events. The student crowd is probably sleeping it off and rising around 1-2pm.
There's no profit in quiet weekends, so that's in the wind.
Verizon sponsoring an event after abandoning its store for a street mini van and a generator, that's rich!
This must be part of Best National Practices.
Except the advertising and marketing is geared to the YOUNGER crowd. It gets their attention, whether they attend a concert or not.
STR - you're first reason for them doing it is right on the mark. Your second reason is totally off the mark. There's only one reason and you got it right with number one.
Now...here's the question. Almost all of your posts start with a QOL complaint, but inevitably circle back to what you've called the big sale. They all circle back to this for one reason. All of the up-sell aspects that you hate, that you advocate against continuously derive from CW's effort to stoke the big sale. So...do we just complain at blogs that stay within a very limited range? Or do we do something about it?
NB: the flea market was the best-attended event in the complex (if not the City) and thousands of residents participated each year.
Where is it? Gone.
It is clear that the selection of events is not based on resident interest or participation, but rather, on PR appeal.
If they ever pawn this dump off on (some of) the residents, all of this stuff will stop. They lose a lot of money on this crap and they will only do it as long as they have to. This is, perhaps, the only positive aspect of a conversion. They will leave us alone and go away...
Dear CW Capital...
SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY!!!!!
These "events" are BOONDOGGLES for the idiots who think them up!
What a shame,,,i avoid these events at all costs on the weekends. They have successfully taken away one of the truly pleasant aspects of ST, a nice quiet and clean open space. Sadly, the reasons you give a probably right on target.
I think the events are just a means to charge higher rents in PCV. After all, if you want to experience peaceful enjoyment of your home, you have to pay up to make sure you're at least two blocks away...
What 7:59PM said.
It would not make any sense to attract older new tenants. Younger people have more disposable income, tend to use the additional housing services offered for a premium.
This past Friday the 1st avenue loop was humming with Best National Practices, private trash carters were hauling everything from old counters, dead trees, etc., oh my!
Ditto 7:59pm!
Enough already!
1) Events are a selling point in advertising and the future sale of this property
2) The events are also a way for CW to burn through money and attempt to show on the books that they have spent the necessary $40,000 per renovated apt, so as to raise the rents, it is the same reason why they pay for 100’s of trees, then pay for them to be planted, then pay for them to be looked after for a year, then pay for them to be chopped down and carted away. Over the last month I have seen large piles of cut down young trees in the South East part of Stuy Town on a weekly basis. And why they constantly plant all those other plants that we do not need or want.
3) The TA announced at a press conference in Nov 2011 that they had partnered with Brookfield and were placing a bid to buy STPCV in the 2nd quarter of 2012, well as we all know that time came and went, they then put out a statement saying that the bidding process was a little more complicated than they had thought it was going to be, but to rest assured, they would be placing there bid to buy late summer of 2012, well kids, that’s now, so why are we not demanding they give us some answers? Even if the answer is gee wiz, this is so complicated we are now going to place our bid early 2013, at least tell us something, other just regurgitating all the usual nonsense.
My floor and apartment always smell like weed. Maybe there is a Grateful Dead concert event I don't know about???
Folks...unless I'm very much mistaken, the people who blog here have lived here for a while and/or do not fall into the yuppie category. Take a walk around the Oval and look at the people...what their general status looks like. The demographics have changed & are changing. The kinds of amenities CW is putting out do in fact appeal to certain types. But not the middle class. Your general argument, the argument that has been generally made for the complex, is to keep it as affordable housing for the middle class. But CW is like Tishman-Speyer. It wants the money. And Brookfield is no different. It's plan (which they'll never unveil prior to CW's final decision) is also like Tishman-Speyer. By pricing so high most tenants won't buy, they'll sell at market rates to well-heeled outsiders. Don't look to the TA for anything. You're hoping against hope. In this area the TA has shown itself to be powerless and wanting. Instead, there needs to be a public political argument made now to save this place for the middle class. Otherwise, Bloomberg's dream will come true. Manhattan will strictly be for the wealthy. The very nature of this blog sends one message...keep the complex for the middle class. You need to get these sentiments out of this blog and into the press and general public.
I have no expectations beyond usual nonsense regurgitation.
Why would anyone think that that would spontaneously change right about now?!?
How much pseudo-entertainment do they think one community needs?
@ 11:45 AM, you are wrong about the oval atrocities, they only appeal to families with young children, which is why Oval kids is the only one that is ever busy and families are what has always made Stuy Town great.
The Oval Cinema has been closed for 6 months because nobody ever used it, the Oval lounge was closed because no one ever used it, and has now opened as the Oval Cafe which I walk past everyday and never see more than 2-8 people in there, and the oval Library is always empty.
Even Yuppies, are quite capable of walking outside of the complex and going to any place they like in the East Village, Gramercy Park, etc.
When there is nice weather and no concert or film, the Oval is full of young people, sunning themselves and older people sitting around the fountain, when the concerts start up, most people just leave.
I sincerely doubt that lots of "well heeled outsiders" are going to buy into a 1940's Robert Moses Housing Project. No matter how much lipstick they paint on these bland red brick pigs.
Don't get me wrong, I love living here, been here 30 years, hope to stay 30 more, and have family members that go back to the very beginning, but it'll never appeal to upmarket buyers.
Since Bloomberg's zoning changes, developers have been racing to put up new buildings all over the city with all the latest amenities and modern conveniences. Our one bathroom apartments with tight kitchens, no washer/dryers, and huge, drippy AC units blocking every window just won't cut it. They want floor-to-ceiling windows with great views, terraces, multiple baths, integrated climate control, and on-site gyms, pools, playrooms. etc.
I think just about anyone seriously planning to sell apartments in PCVST knows that their main market is the folks already living here.
How do we get this blog out into the general discussion and prevent Bloomberg's dream (our nightmare) from coming true? The city is becoming a very polarized place. We have multimillion dollar condos being built, which may or may not become occupied and total squalor at street level. I see more and more homeless, more and more panhandlers on the trains, bullets are flying everywhere and the mayor cares more about the caloric intake of New Yorkers than anything else. The total craziness of what's going on in this city would be funny if it were not so tragic.
I'm 32 and think the events are really cheesy. Tired of the assumption the critical voices in our community are fueled by oxygen tanks.
"By pricing so high most tenants won't buy, they'll sell at market rates to well-heeled outsiders. "
Dear sir/madam, would you please be kind enough to explain to us why any "well-heeled outsider" would be willing to pay market rate prices for an apartment in a dirty, run down 67 year old housing project? I'm asking because you apparently know exactly how things will be playing out.
Basta! I say we just stage our own ST Flea Market. If STR is cool with it, we could pick a date and time and just (weather permitting) show up en masse, missing only the reservations and adorable crayoned numbered sign from the Rec Dept.. If they don't ask us, why do we need to ask them? Besides, if there's 100s of us, how the hell is PS gonna shut it all down? We get an event we actually like, we can get the word out on some other local blogs (not TOO far in advance), have fun, make some cash, clear out some space, and even address the commenter who wanted to know if we just complain or could "do something about it." Win-win. Comments?
10:56 -- I wish Jerry would come back from the dead and rejoin the Dead and give a concert here! THAT I would go see!
"Basta! I say we just stage our own ST Flea Market. If STR is cool with it, we could pick a date and time and just (weather permitting) show up en masse, missing only the reservations and adorable crayoned numbered sign from the Rec Dept.. If they don't ask us, why do we need to ask them? Besides, if there's 100s of us, how the hell is PS gonna shut it all down? We get an event we actually like, we can get the word out on some other local blogs (not TOO far in advance), have fun, make some cash, clear out some space, and even address the commenter who wanted to know if we just complain or could "do something about it." Win-win. Comments?"
Let's go for it! Have to be careful of bedbugs, though. Fleas only, please.
The demographics have already started changing. 40% of the complex is FMRTs. Can you imagine people paying between 3-5K to live in a 2 BR down here? No? But they're doing it. They don't see STPCV as you do. You see it as it was and compare it to what it's become. Outsiders see a place with nice playgrounds, grass, trees galore now, pigeons & squirrels. They compare this to living in the land of cement & think this is a much better place to raise their kids.
The old flea market was great. Too downscale though. CW will never allow it.
How do you make this blog public? There need to be rallies and speakers making the case out loud against Bloomberg, out loud against the social engineering going on down here to make a buck, making the case against Manhattan becoming the isle of the elite. These are the kinds of rallies a tenant association would pull together, that our councilman ought to be sponsoring. Instead we see the councilman & the TA rallying around an aggressive developer that has given no plan that describes how the area will be able to stay middle class. So I disagree with STR with respect to the TA. In this case we need an alternative organization.
"I say we just stage our own ST Flea Market."
Management would have to be OK with it--as long is is only for residents and their guests...
As an aside, are they still trying to sell refreshments from pushcarts in the Oval or did that idea peter out (no pun intended)?
The sale of STPCV is only going to work if it goes Co Op or Condo, and that will only work if the insiders price is affordable to the majority of the people who live here, and then of course the maintenance will also have to be low. A big chunk of both maintenance and mortgages are tax deductible so even if the monthly payment is larger than what those of us who have been here for a long time are now paying in rent, it will even out.
And you are right, no well healed buyers are interested in moving in here, the no doorman issue is enough to deter most of them, let alone all the other issues that have just been mentioned on this blog.
The hard cold reality is, others will be willing to overpay to live here, to move in now would mean paying a premium rent, not sure the lure of an insiders price would be of any significance.
Present tenants would pay a discounted premium to own plus a upkeep fee, whereas simply being a tenant would be the wise choice?
The idea floated around of the tenants buying the unit s as a whole through Brookfield is vague. Do you think Brookfield is not in it for the money?
Who would want to buy an apt in a building where:
no doorman, with dark paths and no security at night?
dirty laundry rooms, with malfunctioning equipment?
dingy, dirty basements, not painted for years?
dirty stairwells?
noisy student apartments with loud, drunken parties?
hundreds of fire hazards?
calling maintenance and waiting, waiting to report anything or require maintenance?
having to wait for appointments to fix anything and then take a day off from work to wait?
People - wake up! Start protesting in front of the leasing office on first avenue - keep the students away and let management know they need to fix this dump or it will forever remain a dump Nobody will want to buy or rent, except the students. Why is everyone so complacent about what's going on here. The nerve of charging market rents for such substandard living!
There's a washer in my building's laundry room that has been out of order for over a week. Out of order in a good way though. It runs without you have put the card in! I've done five loads today and did several last week and do not have a pang of guilt about it. MacGray, find it for yourself. Wouldn't tell ya where it is if you begged!
"Who would want to buy an apt in a building where:
no doorman, with dark paths and no security at night?
dirty laundry rooms, with malfunctioning equipment?
dingy, dirty basements, not painted for years?
dirty stairwells?
noisy student apartments with loud, drunken parties?
hundreds of fire hazards?
calling maintenance and waiting, waiting to report anything or require maintenance?
having to wait for appointments to fix anything and then take a day off from work to wait?"
Are you joking? I'm definitely IN!
And I have a check for fifty bucks in my pocket to prove it...
I've said this over and over again, but it seems that the the folks who badmouth PCVST haven't a clue as to what the market looks like. The issues here are often overstated, and although we don't have doormen, the apts are comparatively large and well laid out. Anyone who has done some comparison shopping will see real advantages to living here.
And yes, the complex is old, but the construction is WAY BETTER than most new buildings. The new glass ones look cool but it's a very cheap way to build and not energy-efficient at all. Don't fall for it.
I have to disagree completely with the fact that people won't pay $$$ for st or pcv. As someone who is literally int he 'real estate' trenches daily, this is still a better deal than most of manhattan below 95th street!
Bathrooms and kitchens with windows is a rarity. A decent siz living room (for nyc) is rare. All utilities included! do you people know what heating and ac costs now? Plus and this is a huge plus..... NO FEE TO MOVE IN!
It costs the average tenant sometimes 4/5k JUST TO MOVE IN.
yes they will pay premium, now and in the future to live here.
"...Can you imagine people paying between 3-5K to live in a 2 BR down here? No? But they're doing it. They don't see STPCV as you do. You see it as it was and compare it to what it's become. Outsiders see a place with nice playgrounds, grass, trees galore now, pigeons & squirrels. They compare this to living in the land of cement & think this is a much better place to raise their kids."
EXACTLY. Well said.
And the long-term tenants here (of which I am one) really need to understand this. Don't think that STPCV is unappealing to "outsiders" just because of how much it has changed for the worse, as far as we are concerned. "Outsiders" do and WILL want to come here. If this place ever goes condo or coop, lots of apartments will be sold, whether to us or to "outsiders". For better or worse.
Nobody was saying that real people do not want to live here, what was said was the well healed do not want to live here, they look upon STPCV as the projects, but for those of us who are not well healed, and love living here, what we are talking about is the complex going Condo, and being sold to the insiders at an affordable price, it has nothing to do with no fee apartments or what people are paying in rent. The students are not here for the long term, and once we do get to buy, the Condo board can vote for no more student housing.
The key here, is we need to have Roberts settled soon, 3 years has been long enough, and the TA who announced in Nov that they were placing a bid to buy in the 2nd quarter of 2012 need to tell us what is going on with that idea. We have been kept in the dark for too long, by the powers that be.
I'm with Chris and the others about how desirable this place still is. When I looked at 2 BRs in the same price range (most were actually up to $500/month higher), OMG!
What the "market" is calling a 2BR is really a small 1 BR chopped up into 2 BRs. Usually it means a really tiny living room with no windows (like the students are doing here to the 1 BR, but even these are bigger than the open market). And the kitchens were scary small and unappointed, usually not open to the living room and no window, so very cramped feeling. Bathrooms were usually nice, but no window. And the closet space, oy.
And in most cases, utilities not included. Granted, the lobbies and laundry rooms usually MUCH nicer, but the living space was crazy small even for two people, let alone a family with one or more kids.
Here, we have 4 closets (the linen closet stores sooooooo much), a lovely kitchen my husband and I can share and cook together and look out the window onto the world. I've seen bigger living rooms, but still quite sizable, and a quite separate dining area, a small hallway leading from the front door to the living room, and L-shaped hallway with two quite large bedrooms, a nice bathroom with a window--and the kicker, utilities included. PLUS, lovely outdoor setting with trees and and fountain and the Oval, occasionally activities for the kids and adults, and the farmers market, and pick-up hockey games and basketball, and all these cute kids and dogs and young people and old people--a diverse small town in the city. All for somewhat less than current market price and so much more for your money. And at least for now, some restrictions on the amount the owner can raise the rent.
Who wouldn't want to live here?
I would like to know if anyone has any ideas about how we can start having rallies to support keeping the complex affordable for the middle class....that object to the social engineering going on here, that stand up against Bloomberg's real estate policies of Manhattan for the elite.
11:39--
With the complex in foreclosure and at least 3 billion in debt, the math just doesn't work to keep the whole place affordable. If we end up with a non-eviction plan condo or coop, at least no one will be forced out.
I think the Flea Market poster was talking about doing it without or in spite of CW's blessing (or knowledge). Even if it only lasted for like 4 hours (11 until 3), to avoid advance detection or enforcement/suppression it would work. Late enough for the churchgoers or late-night revelers to do and still short enough to not wear out our welcome. Like a dry run for the real thing. I love this idea. A People's Flea Market with no management hand in sight. We really should try to do this.
Bless you blogger for saying this!
Can we get some protests going and get them to limit the events or move them around the complex? There are 5 other playgrounds where they could hold events but NO... they impose this crap on people on the Oval over and over again. Share the "wealth"... get it off the Oval.
And just 1 more thing... the BELLOWING COACHES for the tiny tot soccer are the worst. EVERYDAY from 9-12 they're hollering WAAA WOOOO WOOOW everytime a 4 year kicks that ball. OMG! I'm on the 12 floor and it's nonstop noise up here. How do the people on the lower floors stand it?
But thank you blogger. Great post!
Lady Maya's events are too downscale, CW seems to love them.
Agree! The constant complainers here have no idea how good they have it.
"Agree! The constant complainers here have no idea how good they have it."
We know. We live in the same dump that you do but we're paying half the price!
"Agree! The constant complainers here have no idea how good they have it."
We know. We live in the same dump that you do but we're paying half the price!>>
And we ain't going anywhere any time soon!
Anonymous said...
"Agree! The constant complainers here have no idea how good they have it."
We know. We live in the same dump that you do but we're paying half the price!
In my building, I know of a couple of FMR who expressed their opinion with their feet--they left. Pre-TS tenants can't afford to do that. We make it clear--because we know--that this place could be so much better.
To Chris...'Not being forced out' is what the best TA Board will be able to claim it did for us...which is really like claiming nothing at all because several non-eviction plans will be in the offing. That's not what we want. We want prices that will allow us to buy at high participation rates. At least the G-W plan aimed for this. But of course the TA board opted for a partner that presented no clear pricing plan and stated no target participation rate at all.
To have monthly rallies you need an organization that's out in the open. The TA would be the natural focal point. Go to the TA facebook page & you'll see that on all quality of life issues, that site & this site seem to be in synch. But God-only-knows-why...the TA felt it needed to make a partnership. If the TA would only drop this and then sponsor rallies that advocate for keeping the place affordable for the middle class, we could get something going.
This housing complex is a privately owned business. You can shout daily in Times Square about affordable housing but it won't change anything. The buyers will be looking at the BOTTOM LINE, not the lawns. This is all so simple....why don't you get it?
Why do you think that having a ralley will influence anyone? The complex is a privately owned business. This is not mainland China....it is America. And the owners will do what they wish to enhance the sales value. If you don't like it, rent an apartment somewhere that you like better. We don't own this place: CW Capital does (for all intents and purposes).
C'mon people. NO ONE can actually tell you what your apartment will cost if you want to buy it because IT IS TOTALLY DEPENDENT ON WHAT THE PURCHASE PRICE WILL BE TO BUY STPCV. AND NO ONE KNOWS WHAT THAT PURCHASE PRICE WILL BE YET.
@Anon September 11, 2012 8:29 AM
With mindsets like your, we'd be sitting here with rotting teeth drinking afternoon tea. Americans believe in the right to protest and in the right of free expression. If you like the conditions here, fine, but there are many who don't, and they have a right to protest. And BTW, CW Capital doesn't "own" the property, they are simply stewards for the owners of the bonds.
OK, technically CW Capital does not "own" the property. But they manage it, make all the decisions, spend money and collect the rent, and plan the eventual disposition to the highest bidder (which will NOT be the idiots from Brookfield). Doesn't that SOUND like an owner to you? Lighten up, already.
@anon September 11, 2012 11:39 PM "....Lighten up, already."
Smarten up already.
Your ignorance of the working of a business deal is formidable. Do you really think that CW Capital forges ahead to conclusion without consulting the investors that it represents ? And you have zero insight into the workings of Brookfield, a company that is considering making a multi-billion dollar investment in the property. As they say at the circus, money talks, bullshit walks.
Sounds like "@anon September 11, 2012 11:39 PM" summed it up pretty well--including the "lighten up" comment.
"As they say at the circus, money talks, bullshit walks."
Well, you got the circus bit right. That sure as hell is what this place is at this point.
It's me again. Brookfield is nothing. They tried and failed, and the TA is too ashamed to admit it. The property will be sold to the highest bidder when it is put on the market. It is NOT on the market yet. Believe me, you will know when actual BUYERS start looking at it. Basic stuff, really, and not worth fighting about.
Brookfield spent a couple million on PR nonsense, which is basically an OPTION. They have not put up a dime nor will they. Having discovered that CW ignores them, and that the TA "deal" provided nothing, they are now twisting themselves into knots figuring out how to get out of this. I am sure that Danny G. is pressuring them to NOT depart as it is his primary election platform. When it dies, his political career dies with it.
The next and highest bid will come from DMC--Dormitory Management Company. Don't forget to sign up for Fall classes...
re: Brookfield is nothing.
Well yes they were only founded in 1899 and have total assets worth well over $151Billion, so you must all be right, they could never pull off a deal as big as buying STPCV.
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