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All comments to posts have to await approval. Please be aware that, depending on when I'm logged onto the internet, it may take me hours, even longer, to moderate comments, so if they don't turn up in a speedy fashion, they are still in the queue. Comments that cross a line I'm not comfortable with will not get approved. Please note: Posts that overdo their passion and veer into name-calling or that make serious accusations without proof are going to have a hard time getting through.

Thursday, October 13, 2011

OMG - It's True! An Ice-Skating Rink is coming to Stuy Town!!!



It's official!... From the Events people at PCV/ST:

The fall and winter season will feature exciting new programs. The PCVST holiday season will be enhanced by a new seasonal ice-skating rink! The new open-air ice rink facility will serve residents of all ages and will feature a variety of special events including ice dancing, figure skating and skating lessons.

The ice rink is scheduled to open on Saturday, November 26th and will remain in operation through February. Additional information on the rink will be made available soon on pcvst.com, including hours of operation, tickets, and a schedule of lessons and events.

97 comments:

Anonymous said...

Where are they putting this fucking thing? Surely not more rape of the Oval?

Stuy Town Reporter said...

The fountain? One of the playgrounds?

Anonymous said...

Playground one in ST was never upgraded when they did the other playgrounds, so thats a likely suspect. I smell lawsuits!

Anonymous said...

I, for one, am excited about this. I have learned that Tonya Harding will be making an appearance on opening day! Nancy Kerrigan declined to be present.

Rose apparently felt that Tonya was more representative of their organization anyway so it all worked out in the end...

Anonymous said...

Maybe in that playground that never was refurbished?

Near 1st Av & 20th street

Anonymous said...

Why can't they spend some money to vacuum the fucking hallways? Clean the laundry rooms? Replace those broken, filthy washers and dryers? You know, the kind of things that landlords are supposed to spend the rent on. I can't believe that CW Capital is so stupid as to keep these arseholes on as managers. If these over-the-top pretentious "events" are meant to bait new renters, I am wondering what the new renters will think when they see the filthy state of the buildings. This place is totally a farce.

Anonymous said...

I hope these jerks have a LOT of liability insurance! I mean a LOT!
I wish that Rose would just manage the property and keep the buildings up to par as far as cleaning and maintenance go and get out of the carnival and fairground business that it seems to be more interested in!

Anonymous said...

I want some of what Adam Rose is smoking.

Anonymous said...

I wish the "Occupy Wall Street" crowd would march to the homes of Jerry and Rob Speyer and protest there. These are the two scumbags who destroyed Stuyvesant Town and PCV because of their unbridled greed and avarice. Throw in their total incompetence at managing property and I think it boils down to the cancer that is destroying our country. Oh, and throw in the greedy filth at Blackrock, MetLife, et al and in a less polite society we would have a whole bunch of candidates for beheading!

Stuy Town Reporter said...

We may get answers soon.

Stuy Town Reporter said...

One of the answers is that the skating rink is designed to attract just the type of tenants--families and kids--that we want here as renters. (And, I guess, keep current families happy with what's being done for them.)

I, too, would rather see the buildings and several tracts in the property better maintained, but this could be a case separate "jurisdictions" with differing issues and capabilities.

I have nothing against a skating rink, per se, though I think it's kinda amusing that we will be getting one. We will have to wait on how it will turn out.

Stuy Town Reporter said...

>>I wish the "Occupy Wall Street" crowd would march to the homes of Jerry and Rob Speyer and protest there.<<

We are still paying, and will pay forevermore, for what they did and the sale of this place by MetLife, which made it imperative to drive out a chunk of the middle-class here and go for an "upscale" renter and groups of kids packing themselves into apartments paid for by their mommies and daddies.

Stuy Town Reporter said...

I just read on Lux's site that it will be Playground 10. That's the one with the Astro Turf. And the only playground that has "grass" all year round. Well, not anymore, it seems.

Several points were made on Lux's Facebook page that I didn't consider: Will there be music blaring during ice-skating season? Food trucks and other commercial enterprises surrounding the playground? (Just as there were food trucks and commercial enterprises surrounding last week's NFL ON THE OVAL event at the same playground.) Will the skating rink be open to public access, just as all the other events are here? I'm getting depressed just listing these issues.

Anonymous said...

Well, at least we don't have to worry about a bunch of frat boys getting drunk and hitting the ice on a Friday night for a bit of "Night Train Express meets Winter sports." Umm...

Just curious, does anyone know if vomit freezes when it hits ice?!?

Anonymous said...

A few words of legal research for our Clever Rose:

A total of 169 consecutive injuries to ice skaters was reviewed. The majority resulted from falls and occurred in young people with little or no previous skating experience. Speed and crowding on the ice may be contributory. Injuries occur because of a casual attitude to the sport and because of a lack of awareness of the potentially serious injuries that can result. It would be beneficial for beginners to undergo specific instruction and, if possible, at separate times or in separate areas.

Stuy Town Reporter said...

Just a few words about comments. It's possible that we can get more information from management and even cooperation (though I'm certain that on several key issues we won't see eye-to-eye), but the commentary needs remain in the sphere of being...shall we say "civil." I get pissed of as any of you about certain things that are happening here, but there's a border that I don't cross and don't want the comments to cross. (Some I've not let through.) This also regards such cheap shots as writing about Rose ASSociates. I can well understand why something like that may rile management, but it would also rile me if someone were writing that publicly about me every time my name was mentioned. Thanks!

Anonymous said...

Much like the food trucks, my guess is that they are bringing in an outside vendor to run the ice skating fiasco. Those folks will likely be the ones liable for the resulting injuries. Of course, no one does this simply out of the goodness of their corporate hearts. They will expect compensation.

How will they be paid? Is our professional management team footing the bill simply to provide yet another value-added services to the valued tenants? That would be my answer if the activity is only open to tenants.

If Rose is not guaranteeing the full cost of the service, then event providers are going to be looking for revenues to make this a profitable venture. Since they're going to be here for *gasp* four months, my guess is they will be looking to encourage a parade of would-be skaters from the surrounding 'hood to join in the fun with us. I don't think they can find enough blade-footed customers in PCVST to cover the cost of operation.

Would be good to know what is really going on here. And, as they say, follow the money. That trail will lead us to the motivation for the project and a better understanding of how it is going to impact the nearby victims...er...tenants.

Anonymous said...

Why not? There's a race track in the area. Almost got hit by a golf cart going way too fast. Management ignored the complaint. Bicycle riders racing to deliver. Let's see, if someone gets killed or run over,too bad. An apt. will be available. Market rate.

Anonymous said...

STR, I appreciate your concerns and your desire to keep this blog clean and wholesome. However, it is sometimes very hard to write politely about a management company that is totally dedicated to pimping the property and putting in all kinds of HIGH PRICE gimmicks, ranging from all the stupid offerings at Oval Atrocities to now a skating rink and at the same time having absolutely no concern or sensitivity to the safety and welfare of tenants. They say it's ok to bicycle on the walkways of the property; it's ok to have large dogs; ok to have any kind of dog on the grass; they carve up apartments and rent them to noisy, self-absorbed college kids; BUT they don't clean the buildings, have inadequate security, don't spend any money on basic maintenance and treat older tenants like crap. Sorry, but it is very hard not to see the ASS in the name Rose Associates. ASS is what they seem to major in - with honors!

Stuy Town Reporter said...

I share some of your concerns, but we're heading into "far-out" territory if you think that Rose treats seniors like "crap." There's no evidence of that. And the security here is pretty darn good when it comes to the issue of crime and safety.

For certain, Rose Associates wants to make the tenants here satisfied with its management. Adam Rose personally takes the time to deal with unresolved issues and management is responsive to tenants to contact the team. Will we all agree on everything? Absolutely not, but we have someone in charge who at least responds and tries to fix things that are not working (which in some cases takes time).

Anonymous said...

Dear STR,
People are frustrated. Rose spends a lot of time on "events" and renting apartments to too many people rather than maintaining what at one time was a well-maintained and beautiful property with a real sense of community that wasn't inspired by food trucks or other commercial bs, with clean buildings, appropriate landscaping instead of jungle plantings, etc. Buildings were clean, there was less garbage and it was under control, laundry rooms were usable. The focus on belly dancing and building an ice skating rink instead of maintenance is insulting. I never thought "Rose ASSociates" was funny. Maybe to some people it was funny the first time but not repeatedly. Someone is frustrated! We're not hearing anything from management anyway. It's your blog to run the way you want to but people shouldn't have to hold back their thoughts about Rose in hopes of getting his response. His actions are the only response that's necessary. It's a bad company. Maybe they can manage individual buildings some place else, but clearly they cannot manage and maintain ST/PCV and people are fed up. This isn't Rose's home. It's ours. I don't need my comment printed. I just hope you consider more than the chance we may hear from Rose. I'd bet anything that the things that are bugging us today aren't on his mind. Thanks, STR. I appreciate your good work. We need you, we need Lux Living, we need a voice because we're being trampled on by Rose.

Anonymous said...

"For certain, Rose Associates wants to make the tenants here satisfied with its management. Adam Rose personally takes the time to deal with unresolved issues and management is responsive to tenants to contact the team."
Huh? For certain? What has Adam Rose personally done? There's shit in my elevator, vomit in front of the building, we heard screeching drunks outside all night. Garbage is unresolved. The buildings are dirty and look like crap. What has he done? What has the team done? I think the sensitivity should be shown to us, not to Adam.

Anonymous said...

I think that allowing bicycle riding on the property is treating the older tenants like crap. I also think that having all these noisy, intrusive "events" is treating the older tenants like crap. In fact, some of the younger tenants probably would like a little more peace and quiet than our landlord/management company allows for. I don't think that Adam Rose and his company has any consideration for older tenants whatsoever. They want them all to die or move out so that their apartments can be carved up and rented out as dorms. Sorry, but that is what I truly believe. By older, I don't "decrepit." There are some very healthy, active seniors in this place, but they are still no match for racing bicycles, skateboarders and those delivery guys on the motorized bikes. They are also no match for big, overbearing dogs. It is also heartbreaking for the older tenants to live in filthy buildings at the more frail stage of their lives, when in the past the buildings were kept clean.

Anonymous said...

Kudos to the poster at 11:26AM today (15th). Sir or Madam, you said it! You said it all! Beautifully!

Stuy Town Reporter said...

I hear you. And I'm not saying that we shouldn't be critical or stop voicing our concerns about what's happening in this complex. Perhaps I'm wrong, but it seems to me that Rose Associates works for two entities: CW Capital and the tenants of this complex. Obviously the desires of both entities can't be met at the same time all the time. I'm not even sure that CW Capital even gives us a thought, except as a potential nuisance. They probably are just interested in the bottom line: money. Rose Associates, as the management company here, wishes to do a commendable job for two reasons, I think: 1) they wish to stay on as the management company, and 2) it's a matter of company pride and satisfaction to see that things work well under their management. (I'm including also the historic view of ST/PCV being important in life of the city and that most everything major that happens here goes down in someone's future history book.)

I also believe that running this place is much more complex than any of us can imagine. Things like maintenance of buildings and the grounds can be separate issues to the money we see being spent on events and Oval "essentials." It MAY be a case that you can't just transfer the money for these events so simply to getting the buildings better maintained. I hope to get clarity on this, and will be sending Adam Rose questions about it.

Yes, it does annoy me to see money and resources being spent on an ice-skating rink when my building is in dire need of a paint job and when the hallway vacuuming needs to be done by tenants because there seems to be no regularity in staff handling the same. I'm sure Adam Rose is aware of this problem.

Anyway, it's a beautiful brisk day outside, so I'll be mostly gone for the rest of the day. See you all later!

Anonymous said...

I'm confused. Could someone please enlighten me? Who actually owns this joint now? Is it CWCap (which is what? a private bank?), Tishman Speyer (though I know they don't run it [into the ground] anymore); or is it the dumb schmucks who Tishman Speyer suckered into investing in the purchase of the property? I get the feeling that we are a ship afloat without a captain or a compass and about to crash into an iceberg!

Anonymous said...

You sound like a good guy, STR, but Rose works for CW and when you look around, you can be sure that the bottom line is the only consideration. Rose has proved that they can't manage this property. I am not a property manager and I don't have to know what goes into the job. It's their job to know how to do this and it's apparent that they haven't got a clue either.

Anonymous said...

3:21 PM, it's not that Rose doesn't know. It's that Rose doesn't care.

You said it yourself. It's all about the bottom line--as one might expect. Not too much we can do about their posture towards us as tenants but we can keep it in the forefront of our thoughts in every aspect of our dealings with them.

Graciously offer a hand in friendship but remember to count your fingers immediately after the handshake is complete.

Oval Events Team said...

Lady Maya presents: Frozen Food Battles!

Lady Maya, Stuy Town's Director of Random Things to Pass 45 Minutes of Time, invites Stuy Town residents and their guests, wink wink, to Frozen Food Battles!

Each Wednesday, NYC's most elite food truck chefs battle it out on ice for cash and prizes! Opening night promises high drama as Korilla Grilled Cheese and Frying Dutchman prepare a 4 course meal made entirely from a rent stabilized tenant slurry!

The winner gets their own fast food booth in the Oval!

Stuy Town Reporter said...

Call me an idiot (hey, not all at one time!), but I believe that Adam Rose DOES care. Just the fact that his company is in charge means that he is and will be trying to do a good job here. I spent some time on Friday talking to the man himself, and I do think he is committed to making this complex work better. Now, do we agree on everything and will we agree on everything? Certainly not, and he understands that.

There was a questions earlier about what has Rose done for tenants? Well, from my experience, I see that the Oval Lawn is being maintained far better than it was, which makes sense since there's a professional gardener now in charge. Not all the grounds are in good shape, but there's more happening in that regard to make them look better, too. (For instance, I'm seeing seeding in grass areas of Peter Cooper that were damaged by too much human traffic.) Security, as far as crime and safety goes, is doing its job. I've had need of maintenance apartment fixes, and the process from beginning to end went smoothly and professionally and without a long waiting time.

There are still problems, of course. Like regular and efficient cleaning of buildings, furniture dumping, etc. And I, like probably all of you, are irked by the push on these events while other more important quality of life matters are not being expeditiously taken care of. Rose is aware of these issues and is trying to make headway.

One of the important positives is access. Anyone can contact management and state their concerns or voice a problem that needs fixing. Sometimes the response may be fruitful, sometimes not, but at least there's a willingness to listen, where there was none in the Tishman Speyer days.

Anonymous said...

STR, I think you're optimistic and hopeful, and certainly not an idiot! If Adam Rose is, in fact, trying to do something here, what's the plan? There must be one. Is he hiring building maintenance people? Renting to fewer people to help reduce the amount of garbage, renting to different people, to reduce garbage and furniture dumping? What's he doing about laundry rooms? What about the rats? What's his plan? Why doesn't he hold a Q&A for tenants? He certainly has spaces where he can host such an event. If all we're talking about is the Oval lawn, which doesn't look even close to when it was beautiful, that's just not enough. Landscaping isn't the priority. What's the plan? Thanks.

Anonymous said...

What headway? Trying how?

Anonymous said...

Does he "try" to do Oval events? Why don't his efforts show in other areas? I don't see it.

Stuy Town Reporter said...

Coming up will be a short series of Q & A with Rose, so some of these concerns should be answered. Patience, my friends!

Anonymous said...

The garbage/recycling is completely out of hand.
Adam, please give new tenants a flier explaining
that that weird little door on their floor
across from the elevators opens and you put your garbage down it!

Every morning there are bags of garbage in the
recycling area that could just be thrown out
on one's floor.

There needs to be more recycling cans. Adam,
show up any morning around 7pm at any building
and tell me you don't see recycling all over the place!

Laundry rooms - What more can one say?! They
are vile and disgusting. Shame on you Adam for
charging these rents and not having
a useable laundry room. STR you can't really
say Rose has improved things when the issues
I just mentioned stick out like a sore thumb.

Anonymous said...

The issues tenants are convened about are generally simple, straightforward and related to basic quality of life issues.

I don't think we need to hold a q & a session to address these simple issues. They could be addressed very quickly if management wanted to do so by making an honest effort to do so. I don't think they have any intention to do so and it all comes down to money.

As for the q&a, I'd prefer if they didn't pee on my leg and try to get me to believe it's just raining.

Anonymous said...

It doesn't matter if Rose cares. The fact is that his firm and his mercenary managers whose only interest in STPCV is the paycheck it provides are not competent managers. They should be replaced, if not by CW, then by woever takes over after them.

If the rink is run by a vendor and there is a charge, it is commercial activity. Look on the zoning map; you will not find a commercial overlay for playground 10.

Anonymous said...

I think that Rose Associates is just not up to the job. I have never before seen my building so filthy and vermin-infested. Mice run around the filthy "carriage room" where the recycling bins are located. My hallway has not been vacuumed in at least a couple of months and is deplorably dirty. I vacuum my little area so that dirt doesn't get walked into my apartment, but I don't have the kind of equipment or inclination to vacuum the entire hall! This place is a disaster. Rose is a disaster. We most definitely have suffered a diminution of services and I appeal to the TA to take this matter up with the DHCR. Let them build all the stupid ice skating rinks, golf put-put things and everything else they waste so much money on, but let them first and foremost keep the buildings clean and sanitary. I moved in here 35 years ago and it was not a slum. I am pained to admit that I now live in a slum and I am not using the word "slum" lightly. I mean it literally.

Stuy Town Reporter said...

I don't see it as a slum at all!

Anonymous said...

Rose is completing the devastation that Tishman Speyer started. Of course Rose should have to answer to us, of course he should have to tell us exactly what he's doing to resolve the problems that are ruining quality of life here. How many building people is he hiring? How will he resolve the garbage, furniture dumping, carriage room, laundry room, rat issues? What is he doing -- not what is he trying to do? He owes us answers and action.

Anonymous said...

Rose is acting like a guy that shows up late to work all the time. Always has an excuse. Sometimes it even sounds like a good one. But he keep showing up late even though he promises this is the last time.

Over and over again.

Talk is cheap.

Learn to show up and do your job and then there's precious little to talk about. That's what's missing here.

Anonymous said...

To STR. I certainly do see it as a slum. If filthy, vermin-infested carriage rooms; dirty elevators and hallways; scum-encrusted washing machines and overflowing garbage bags don't constitute a slum, then I think your definition of a slum is very different from mine. You can also add to that a stench of dog shit that permeates the Terrace level of my building. I'd hate to see what you consider a slum.

Lux Living said...

Having worked with Rose on trash issues I can tell you first hand they send emails, door drop information and post signs in both the chute closets and recycling rooms in an effort to educate the newer tenants. They give ALL the trash/recycling info to new tenants upon moving in. They do everything they can minus taking the tenants trash out themselves. Some of the newer, younger tenants simply don't care.

I feel like a documentarian for urban blight because I send more photos of dumped trash to Rose than I'd care to admit. I include the times / locations and I know they have been able to identify the apartments the trash is coming from. Rose then does another door drop to the apartment of pigs.

Tenants like myself should not have to police the property.

I said the other day on Facebook that whoever ends up owning ST/PCV is going to have to rule this place with an iron fist because some of these newer, younger tenants need constant babysitting.

In 2011, Property Managers are not enough. We need BUILDING MANAGERS. People who are onsite each day and know the rhythm of the buildings and what takes place in them.

But all of this takes $$$ and we are a defaulted property.

Anonymous said...

Connecting all the dots back we get to Tishman Speyer and the people at MetLife who sold the property to them. There should be some way to get the necessary money from them to do what is necessary to bring this property up to standard and get the building managers Lux Living suggested. I wish the idealistic Occupy Wall Street movement would get some tweets ordering them to march on Tishman Speyer's offices and demand justice. Ah, what a lovely fantasy!

Anonymous said...

Lux,

These are ALL good points and your efforts go way beyond what should be required of ANY tenant.

But somehow the garbage piles up as the ice rink is being built and the oval "whatever" flyers keep getting distributed under my door each month.

It's not your job. It's THEIR job. Rose didn't suffer as a result of the default on this property. They actually got their contract as a result of that default.

It's time for them to pick up the trash, vacuum the halls and make this place a habitable environment before they direct their efforts on revenue generating projects.

And, if the current rental environment in NYC continues, wait for the residence "inquisitions" to resume--only on the below market-rate tenants, of course.

Anonymous said...

When I thought this might be happening by where I live I spoke with an attorney who said there are a myriad of ways to stop this. Since it won't affect me one way or another anymore I no longer care. However, if I lived by the Oval I would call an attorney ASAP. If you let it be built and opened it's too late!

Adam R. Rose said...

I look forward to answering any question that I can. It seems that it would be helpful to answer the first question which is "who owns the place?" The answer is the senior debt which is in the hands of a bondholder Trust. That Trust is represented by CW Capital. So, for all intents and purposes, CW Capital is the owner. Rose Associates is the management company, tasked with the thousands of jobs, large and small, that maintain and lease the property. Any discussion of Tishman Speyer is a waste of time as they are long gone. We clearly acknowledge that there are things to improve. But residents who call the property a "slum" are just not living in the real world. People of all ages rent at PCVST because the 80 acre property looks terrific. It is a shame that some longtime residents seem to despise the new, younger people, forgetting that they, too, were young when they moved into the property.

Anonymous said...

While i understand the need to be diplomatic if you want to have a rapport with these guys, I do have to agree with the anons expressing their opinion of this place being a slum, yes, a slum. The terrace level of my building by the elevators smells of garbage constantly, the recycle bins are constantly overflowing (lets not even talk about the weekends). It is scandalous that they would have the nerve to have an ice skating rink while these buildings are in such disrepair. I won't even get into the rest of the property, the dog excrement, etc. I wonder, what has this "dialogue" with Rose actually netted for tenants anyway? Is it really worth concealing the truth?

Stuy Town Reporter said...

I hope to be sending Adam Rose a series of questions soon.

Stuy Town Reporter said...

Regarding the slum comment(s), I've already stated that I don't consider this complex to be a slum. Far from it. I've seen slums. This ain't it. Does building maintenance need to pick up its game? Certainly. Are there ground areas of the complex that need to be improved? Of course. But those are issues that hopefully will be tackled in the near future. Again, I will be asking pertinent questions of Adam Rose, and I'm sure he'll want to respond.

Anonymous said...

I don't believe for a minute that was Adam Rose's comments at 12:03. Obviously a website troll.

If Adam Rose had BALLS he'd address these issues in a public meeting..maybe a local school auditorium.

Anonymous said...

Adam, if you are still reading, I have to say a few things:

1. the garbage problem is solvable and you clearly have chosen not to solve it and money seems to be the issue.

2. the "events" that you sponsor seem to be doing more harm than good. Yes, 50 people show up and enjoy themselves but thousands are at home and are either disturbed by the noise or by the "camping" of the property they have called home for so many years.

3. no one wants a food truck parked outside of their window.

4. some schmuck on a bike just about killed me last night as I walked home in the dark. I realize you weren't riding that bike but, by giving up on any kind of vehicular regulation on the property, you are enticing a serious injury.

5. I have neighbors that are both younger and older than myself. I, like everyone I know that lives here, judges them on the content of their character as opposed to the age on their driver's license. Don't perpetuate a fallacy of "all the old folks hate all the young folks." It's just not true. That said, you have ushered in a whole hoard of unruly people into our midst. Be ready to take credit for that.

Actions speak louder than words. You know how to talk the talk but we have seen precious little in terms of positive actions or walking the walk. I think all of us would love to see you live in a world much like the one you have created for us here.

Anonymous said...

Referring to PCV/ST as a slum is factually inaccurate. It is not a ghetto either, as access to the outside is unfettered and we are not here as a result of social, economic, or legal issues (though we are constantly engaged in legal battles).

"Tenement Community" would be more appropriate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenement

Mother and resident who loves young people said...

Like Mr. Rose, I too like the young people of this community. I moved here as a young person and now have some young people of my own who I adore raising in this community. That's why I object to the unfortunate location of the ice rink. Here are some questions for Mr. Rose: Why was PG 10 selected as the site for the rink when it will displace hundreds of kids of all ages who now actively use it for free, spontaneous, pick-up games and other unstructured active play because of its unique sports-friendly surface? In operating the new ice rink business in such proximity to hundreds of homes where kids are trying to do homework and families are hoping to entertain holiday guests, will Rose Associates abide by the Good Neighbor Policy concerning Transmission of Noise, posted on www.pcvst.com. Third, can Mr. Rose please detail how much Management consulted with the tenant community for their views about this sweeping transformation of a beloved playground?

Anonymous said...

Adam,

We dont despise the young tenants unless they make themselves despicable. We do despise the fact that Rose allows some of them to pack 6 or 8 (unrelate) kids into one apartment and then run roughshod all over the legal tenants. Enforcing rug policy and cleaning up their vomit would be nice however.

Lux Living said...

Comparing older generations of young Stuy Town tenants to the young tenants od 2011 is comparing apples and oranges.

The young families who moved into Stuyvesant Town and Peter Cooper Village in the ‘40s had hard lives to say the least. They had suffered through The Great Depression and some fought in World War II. Packed into tenement slums, these families lived in absolute squalor. When Stuyvesant Town was built, they had the opportunity to live in large, clean apartments which included heat and hot water. They had laundry facilities in the buildings and their children had safe park space to play in. After what these people just went through, Stuyvesant Town was the equivalent of winning the lottery. And they knew it.

Because older generations sometimes struggled with money, respecting others, having manners, saying please and thank you, holding the door, etc. was important to them. Like giving someone your word, sometimes, it’s all you have to offer.

Present day, some of our new younger neighbors have no concern for their fellow tenants, the property or anything other than themselves and their immediate needs.

I’m not aligning the original tenants with sainthood nor am I suggesting all of our 20-something neighbors are leaving garbage and mattresses in the lobbies. But I have a hard time believing the original “young people” were hosting parties crammed with 30 or so War brides playing beer pong, using the stairwells as toilets because there was a line for the bathroom, and leaving thongs on the sidewalks as they staggered drunk back to their subdivided apartments. While I do not wish war, hardship, poverty or filthy living conditions on anyone – though it can be argued they are bringing the latter to us – it’s worth noting that because of socioeconomic reasons it is absurd to compare Stuyvesant Town’s original families to the roommates of present day Stuy Town.

Not so Rosie said...

"It is a shame that some longtime residents seem to despise the new, younger people, forgetting that they, too, were young when they moved into the property."

Are you really so naive Adam? What we despise is the pressure wall hell you created with these apartments. Stuyvesant Town was not meant to be a dorm. It’s like we are in a remake of Back to School and you’re Thornton Melon!

Anonymous said...

Adam,

You're right, most everyone was young when they moved into ST?PCV. My parents were 29 & 28, and Dad was just back from the war. They raised 4 children, many years of it in a 2 bedroom apartment where my parents slept in the living room. Sounds just like today, doesn't it ?... but it's not. We were raised to respect our neighbors and the place we lived in. We covered our floors with carpeting and the kids were in bed by 10PM, not screaming through our streets (and their apartments) after the bars close at 4 AM. We threw our garbage in the incinerators (later compactors) and MetLife gladly picked up large items from our apartments or hallways and disposed of them at no charge. We didn't have dogs, because the design of the development wasn't conducive to dealing with the noise and waste from thousands of animals. Children were amply entertained by a sizable recreation department staff that wrapped up playground activity by 5 or 6 PM so families could eat in peace and quiet, and together. We originally rode our bicycles on the sidewalks until it became obvious that their sheer numbers posed a threat to public safety, so bikes were banned and you had to WALK THEM through the property.

Most noteable now is the lack of peace, quiet and civility that predominates. Music blasting from the Oval during summer. Constant "activity" which simply detracts from the beautiful bucolic atmosphere that was so unique and precious to our homes. New York is a huge place with literally thousands of activities for people to partake in, yet your management style feels a need to bring it right to the doorsteps of all the residents. I think the stress and anger that manifests itself in all the negative posts about the property is a direct result of tenants frustration that they are unable to engage in a productive and responsive dialog with management.

Now, you're building a skating rink in our beautiful playground, which ultimately feels like it will be a further intrusion into the peace an quiet that tenants are trying to enjoy. I certainly hope that your managers will be aware of this intrusion of sound, light and activity, and will limit that intrusion as much as possible.

Thanks for listening.

Anonymous said...

I don't really know about slums. I know about this place. I know that there were never rats in the laundry and carriage rooms and all over. I know the washers and dryers are supposed to work. The landscaping is jungle-like and inappropriate. I don't care who owns it. It's not being run the right way. There are too many people here. It was never built for so many. The commercial enterprises belong somewhere else. Yep, Adam R. Rose. Long-time tenants were once young. So? When they went away to school, they lived in dorms, not crammed into residential apartments that were never designed for that purpose or that number of people. Adam, your feeling about how the property looks is your feeling. I don't share it. Tell us what you're doing about the rats, about cleaning and maintaining the buildings, about garbage, porters, furniture dumping and woo-hooing drunks all night long. Tell us something real about restoring quality of life instead of trying to bs us. There's no defense. You've done nothing but Oval events and crowding this place with too many people. Hotels, drunks, rats, buildings waiting to be cleaned, maintained. Come on, will ya? STR, I respect you and the work you do. I don't see why we have to hope to send Adam questions soon. He's reading this and other things. He knows what the issues are. He can't do the job. Period.

Anonymous said...

My only mention of Tishman Speyer is when it looks like Rose is continuing their follies so it's you whose keeping the Tishman Speyer influence alive. Adam, if your home looked like Stuy Town, would you think it looked terrific? If you're not keeping rats as pets and garbage as lawn decorations, you wouldn't. And if you were keeping rats as pets and garbage as lawn decorations, your opinion really wouldn't mean much. Fact is you don't live here, you never would, never did, and you don't know how it looked when it was beautiful. Young families were always part of the population here. Dorms were not, so don't even try suggesting that older tenants don't remember being young. Too bad you don't know what you're writing about. You just don't. Managing a single apartment building somewhere else is nothing like ST-PCV. You can't do it and that's what shows.

Anonymous said...

So Luxie reports all the things that Rose does to inform new tenants about how to dispose of garbage and the door drops they do on the pigs. Somehow in his list of things, I didn't see picking up the garbage and cleaning the hallways.

Adam (I got my job the same way Rob did) Rose boasts of the beautiful grounds. Obviously, he does not go inside buildings to see the filth, the carpeting that is hardly ever vacuumed and even less frequently shampooed, the dirty walls, the garbage crammed recycle areas, the laundry equipment that doesn't work, the elevator floors in PCV that are buckled (that renovation of elevators was courtesy of Rose) etc. But that is what happens when management cuts maintenance staff, preferring instead to spend money on oval bread and circuses rather than basic maintenance.

And Luxie and now STR report with great enthusiasm how attentive Adam is and how he regularly intervenes to straighten things out. The fact that he needs to regularly intervene is itself evidence that his senior mercenary managers are incompetent at doing their jobs.

The bottom line is that all that Adam Rose cares about is the bottom line. He does not care one iota about the resident of the community. The sooner we are rid of him and CW, the better.

Anonymous said...

"We clearly acknowledge that there are things to improve."

What are you waiting for??? Rose Associates been here for a year now? Everything is baby steps with you people!

Anonymous said...

"It is a shame that some longtime residents seem to despise the new, younger people, forgetting that they, too, were young when they moved into the property."

this innocent remark will have a life of its own.
1. Young people who moved here years ago - stayed here and got old here making families and friends for life vs.
young people who move in now - stay for a year or two; have a few parties, smoke a little pot, catch a few rays by...sorry, in the fountain. Before long they leave their Ikea furniture by the curb and move to the burbs.
When turnover is perpetual 20% a year with all the cleaning, dumping, hammering, painting that accompany it - there's no hope in having a well-run community.

simkie said...

Why me? Why me?

Anonymous said...

This comes down to money: rents rolls are too low to cover the debt that CW Capital is servicing. Things can't move forward until the property can produce enough revenue to cover more than the bare-bones. There are two ways this will happen: one is by bringing rents up to market rate, and the other is by making sane efforts to control cost. Both of these will be very unpleasant - nobody wants to fight with unions, but I'm not interested in helping painters earn $95k a year for example. I'm also not into the stabilized versus non debate, but from a purely financial perspective, the community has a huge interest in seeing older tenants move out or die. More rents, lower costs, profits available to re-invest in the community. Community gets better. If this place went co-op tomorrow, maintenance would go through the roof.

Anonymous said...

@Anon October 19, 2011 11:13 PM wrote:

"the community has a huge interest in seeing older tenants move out or die. More rents, lower costs, profits available to re-invest in the community. Community gets better."

Now isn't this a fine "how do you do" ? I love how you speak for "The Community". Where is the respect for the people who lived in this community for all these years, cared for it and nurtured it ? Do you think this is how you want to be treated in your senior years ? Kicked to the curb with yesterdays garbage ? Disgraceful.

Anonymous said...

@Anony 11.13PM-“More rents, lower costs, profits available to re-invest in the community. Community gets better.” Yes, the trickle-down, supply side theory at its worst. Yes, the insane over payment of $5.4 billion dollars for this property by predatory vultures and the resulting disastrous foreclosure (I can read through the lines in your post) is all those rent stabilized tenants fault. Yes, as per the Julian Brash’s excellent book, Bloomberg’s New York-Class and Governance in the Luxury City”, the CEO mayor, that template has worked out just fine for the working and middle class of this city. Yes, the ”community gets better”. You mean the Wall Street and the Real Estate “communities” get better. No room for the middle class/working class any more in this city. Just the rich, their spawn (NYU) and tourists. High Line anyone? I left out the poor for now and their NYC public housing projects. After all, once we are rid of them, the “community gets better”. Your post reminds me of the Alien response to the President in the movie "Independence Day". The President asks the Alien captive what he wants the earth to do. His response: “Die……Die.”

Anonymous said...

"sane efforts to control costs..."

and this includes putting in a ice skating rink?

Anonymous said...

Dear STR and Lux Living,

Stop the pandering. Rose Ass ociates doesnt give a crap about you. They will use you, then chew you up and spit you out. You are nothing more than a sympathetic ear to these buffoons. They are not up to the job and they dont care but they will use you to try to make it look like they are trying. It is all smoke and mirrors. Next thing he'll be telling you is the check is in the mail, or of course I'll call you in the morning.

Fed Up Tenant said...

WHERE ARE THE TENANTS ASSOCIATION AND COUNCILMAN DAN GARODNICK WHEN YOU NEED THEM??!! It is their job to do something about all the ILLEGAL COMMERCIAL ACTIVITY on the Oval that Management is inflicting on tenants. Everyone needs to FLOOD the Tenants Association website with complaint emails. Unfortunately, it’s the only way they will get the message that we expect them to do their job and handle this issue NOW: http://www.stpcvta.org/kb/contact. Or you can call them at 1-866-290-9036.

Anonymous said...

The Tenants Association is trying to get landmark status for Stuyvesant Town and Garodnick will show up if someone brings a TV camera.

Anonymous said...

I'm sorry but is the anonymous comment posted at October 19, 2011 11:13 PM Adam Rose too? It sounds VERY much like him and notice the slip:

"This comes down to money: rents rolls are too low to cover the debt that CW Capital is servicing. Things can't move forward until the property can produce enough revenue to cover more than the bare-bones. There are two ways this will happen: one is by bringing rents up to market rate, and the other is by making sane efforts to control cost. Both of these will be very unpleasant - nobody wants to fight with unions, but I'm not interested in helping painters earn $95k a year for example. I'm also not into the stabilized versus non debate, but from a purely financial perspective, the community has a huge interest in seeing older tenants move out or die. More rents, lower costs, profits available to re-invest in the community. Community gets better. If this place went co-op tomorrow, maintenance would go through the roof."

What a sicko!!!

Roger Roundly said...

Regarding the Anonymous commenter at October 19, 2011 11:08 PM

Yup, it all comes down to money, doesn't it? But whose money? Junior lenders got stiffed on their bad investment in ST-PCV. But tenants are expected to bail out...er, I mean..."make whole" the senior lenders (ie: Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, two GSEs that "have an affirmative obligation to facilitate the financing of affordable housing for low-income and moderate-income families") for their crappy investment? What's that expression, again...oh yeah, "privatizing profits and socializing losses."

It's time to unstack the deck.

"I have had men watching you for a long time and I am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the Bank. ... You are a den of vipers and thieves."

—Andrew Jackson, 1834,

Stuy Town Reporter said...

I really doubt that Anonymous October 19, 2011 11:13 PM is Adam Rose. Most people are anonymous here, and that poster is reflecting a certain cold viewpoint that is probably close to a reality for whoever holds (as in owns), or will hold, this complex, excepting the tenants themselves.

Roger Roundly said...

It doesn't matter who the Anonymous commenter is. And "cold viewpoint" my ass.

ST-PCV wasn't an "investment." The lenders were speculating, they knew the rent rolls didn't cover the mortgage. They were betting on a variety of things happening that would increase the value of ST-PCV that didn't happen. First enough regulated tenants didn't get thrown out illegally, then the housing bubble burst, then Roberts got decided, and then enough seniors didn't die. Despite that, these predatory lenders still expect CW Capital to provide them a cushy landing that will have them getting back every penny on the dollar of their crappy ST-PCV 2006 "investment" from whomever eventually gets to pry it out of their cold dead hands. I call foul.

Stuy Town Reporter said...

Unfortunately, the reality is that the lenders could care less about this place, excepting as a return on the money they put in. CW is in charge of that. Anything that maximizes profit is, therefore, a good thing; anything that stifles it, a bad thing. Rent stabilized tenants and funding to run this place with high standards (which takes money) are bad things under such a scenario. As usual, the middle class takes the brunt.

Anonymous said...

I think the debt should be written off. These assholes aren't going to get their money and there's no point in making the tenants (legal) angrier all the time. I wish the Occupy Wall Street crowd would get wind of the TishSpy scam and go occupy Rockefeller Center. That would really get Bloomberg's balls in a knot because the tourists love that spot.

Anonymous said...

Adam,
Thank you for responding directly to this tread. However, you conveniently left out the following points regarding the type of tenants you (and TS before) are currently marketing to:

1.With the addition of a pressure wall, the 500 or so apartments that you are currently renovating, these former two bedroom and one bedroom apartments are now being marketed as three and two bedroom apartments. These apartments are being filled with transient tenants, ages 18-30. Let me use a three bedroom as an example. With three roommates on the lease plus their assorted partners, you can now have up to six unrelated people living in one apartment with one bathroom. Nice.
2.“People of all ages rent at PCVST”. Not the current type of tenants that you marketing to. Anyone can go by the ST leasing office and see that there are no tenants under the age of 30 in the office, the tours given to the model apartment have groups of this type of demo as well. Anyone over 30 in the office is someone's parents, guaranteeing the lease. I can count the number of true family tenants in my building on one hand.
3.“It is a shame that some longtime residents seem to despise the new, younger people, forgetting that they, too, were young when they moved into the property.” There was a Met Life regulation that you could only have two unrelated tenants in one apartment. In hindsight, that lease requirement was discriminatory. Nobody despises young people. That comment is very condescending and you should apologize for it. These apartments were not designed to be dormitories. That is the big difference between now and back in the day.
4.Adam, where do you live? I assume if you live in Manhattan, you live in nice cooperative luxury apartment. Would your Board allow 6 unrelated people to live in an apartment that was directly above yours? Would you be happy with such an arrangement if it was allowed?
5.With the current Roberts ruling in limbo and the current state of how to interpret the proper rent of a rent stabilized apartment (Adam, be honest here ), it is in the short term economic interest of CW Capital to churn as many apartments as possible. This strategy is not a good one for the long term nor is it good for this community as a quality of life issue.

Again, I’m glad you responded, we need a tough, no BS dialogue here, not just insults.

Anonymous said...

Adam,

This is the anonymous five comment person again who complemented you for replying to the slum issue on this blog and tread. Regarding your age quote, again:

“It is a shame that some longtime residents seem to despise the new, younger people, forgetting that they, too, were young when they moved into the property.”

The people on this blog are not dumb. We all remember this NY Times article:

“Everything but the Bathroom Sink”
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/20/realestate/20hunt.html?scp=9&sq=stuyvesant%20town%20roommates&st=cse

The money quote about the 27 (!) year old woman who was the focus of the article:

“After two years, she and one roommate moved to a Stuyvesant Town one-bedroom. She paid $1,560 for half of the living room, while her roommate paid $1,810 for the bedroom. The neighbors included plenty of noisy students.”

Yes, as per the rest of the article, she moved out because of this. I guess she just despises young people as well And please do not use the excuse of the prior administration, Tishman Speyer, to explain away this 9/18/2009 article. As I said in my previous comment, these transient/student types are your ideal demo, as per the flawed business model that Tishman Speyer used and which is still currently used by you and CW Capital.

We are still waiting for your apology. Thank you.

Stuy Town Reporter said...

The Tenants Association is soliciting opinions about the ice-skating rink that's coming to Playground 10:

http://www.stpcvta.org/kb/entry/37/

I know that the TA has taken a number of hits from tenants, but it's the only organization tenants have at the moment and can be a powerful voice for all if we make the push.

Anonymous said...

I just sent this off to the TA. I think it covers most of the issues that have been discussed here, Lux's blog and the TA's FB page.

The following is a list of the major issues regarding the ice rink facility that will operate at Playground 10:
1. This is an illegal commercial use of one of the playgrounds. The internal areas of this property, the playgrounds, the Oval, etc., are not zoned for this type of development. If this is allowed, what is to prevent CW Capital from developing the other 14 playgrounds in STPCV? The Oval itself?
2. Taking out one of the playgrounds, playground 10, a unique playground that has artificial turf for children’s organized sporting activities and is currently open to only residents and their guests, and turning it into commercial ice rink that will most likely be open to nonresidents, is a reduction of services and should be contested.
3. Rose did not have (as far as I know) ANY contact with the Tenants Association regarding the impact of this facility on our community. The hours of this facility, will there be recorded music, additional food trucks, noise, security, etc., none of these issues were discussed.
4. A further degradation of the quality of life here due to noise, litter and crowds coming into this community due to a commercial enterprise. The environmental impact, especially on the tenants who have apartments facing playground 10 and those who face the Oval, will be devastating.
5. Finally, as a foreclosed property in desperate financial straits, the siphoning of badly needed resources to this type of venture when the property is strewn with illegally disregarded trash and furniture, filthy laundry rooms with many of the machines out of order, the re-cycling area overwhelmed with recycled items and vermin attracting soiled trash, rats, bed bugs and other assorted vermin found on the common grounds and inside apartments as well (exclude the rats inside apartments-for now), security overwhelmed by screaming drunks who party on the grounds outside and inside the apartments, this is gross incompetency at its best or at its worst, a designed strategy to drive out long term tenants

Anonymous said...

October 21, 2011 2:29 PM,

If you sent that statement around as a petition, I would not hesitate to sign it.

Anonymous said...

IF CW CAPITAL AND THE BONDHOLDERS WERE ALL WIPED OUT TOMORROW, THE COMMUNITY WOULD COLLAPSE. COLLECTED RENT IS LESS THAN CURRENT EXPENSES. CW CAPITAL AND THE BONDHOLDERS ARE SUBSIDIZING THE LOSS IN THE HOPES OF EARNING IT BACK WHEN THEY SELL. PCVST IS BLEEDING MONEY - NOT AS FAST AS IN THE TISHY ERA, BUT FAST - A SKATING RINK IS A DROP IN THE BUCKET IF IT BRINGS IN NEW TENANTS WHO PAY MARKET RATES. AND IF THE NOISE KILLS A FEW OLD PEOPLE, CW DOESN'T CARE.

Anonymous said...

New market rate tenants who will move OUT because THEY won't want

- circuses outside their windows
- garbage in the halls
- students living 8 to an apartment
- peeling paint
- Mac-Gray washers and dryers
- infant feces in the trash
- fly swarms in carriage rooms
- vomit
- urine in the stairwells
- mice, rats, roaches
- unexpected large rent increases

THOSE reasons, to name a few, are why PCVST is an albatross.

Anonymous said...

@anony 4.33 PM-Thank you-please use it or modify it and send it ASAP to the TA link that STR provided in an earlier post. Here it is again.

http://www.stpcvta.org/kb/entry/37/

@anony 4.38 PM-Upper case only? How pathetic. In general, the people who post on this blog are made of a lot sterner stuff than you are.

Fed Up Tenant said...

Does anyone else remember Congresswoman Carolyn Maloney, at a Tenant's Association meeting, saying that she was going to get answers from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac - whose mission is AFFORDABLE HOUSING - about why they invested in STPCV when it was so obvious that the Tishman Speyer game plan here was to get rid of as many rent-stabilized tenants as possible? I would love to hear what happened with that. I think that Congresswoman Maloney owes us some answers.

The bottom line is that we have to get CW Capitol and Rose Associates out of here. We will have no peace until we do.

Anonymous said...

I am outraged that Rose and CW continue to bring commercial activities into an area zoned for residential use only. Along with the ice skating rink, there will be other commercial activities such as food trucks etc. We already have rats and these types of activities only give them more ability to breed. What about the noise? What about the liability? Is it so far fetched to think that some drunken twenty somethings won’t try to climb over the fence on a Friday or Saturday night and get hurt? Why doesn’t Rose/CW spend this money on the actual maintenance of the buildings. They could hire a night crew to clean up the recycling rooms so that they are not such a mess every morning. Why do they continue to try to make Stuy Town into a mini Rockefeller Center?

Anonymous said...

"COLLECTED RENT IS LESS THAN CURRENT EXPENSES"

I bet they could save some money by not erecting an ice skating rink!

Anonymous said...

Hey, Poster at 4:38 pm:

CW CAP AND THE BONDHOLDERS CAN DROP DEAD AND GO TO HELL. THE COMMUNITY WOULD NOT COLLAPSE IF CW CAP AND BONDHOLDERS WENT AWAY AND TOOK THEIR DEBT WITH THEM THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TENANTS WHO LIVE HERE. I WOULDN'T CARE WHO TOOK OVER THE PROPERTY BECAUSE IF WE WEREN'T PAYING ROBBIE'S BAD DEBT, WE WOULD HAVE ENOUGH MONEY IN THE RENT ROLLS TO COVER EXPENSES. I HOPE THEY NEVER RECOVER THEIR INVESTMENT AND DIE TRYING.

Anonymous said...

Whose palms are being greased to allow this egregious violation of the zoning laws?

Anonymous said...

Adam Rose expressed interest in addressing questions and concerns from tenants as posted here on this blog. It seems to me that there is more than adequate material for Adam Rose to address given all of the thoughtful comments posted here.

I think it is safe to say that there have NEVER been so many enraged, concerned and fed up tenants expressing their opinions on a single issue. I don't think that the ice rink is necessarily the worst thing that has been foisted upon us but it certainly seems to be the breaking point.

All of the neglect and nonsense of the past five years is coming home to roost. I sense we have reached the tipping point.

Crazy Eddie said...

@Anony 10.02 PM-You are correct sir!

“Fight the power. We gotta fight the powers that be! “

Jesus, I am old, that song is 22 years old!

Anonymous said...

Ed, you must simply be "insane in the membrane!"

L.

Anonymous said...

just think.

people used to wait 10 years on a waiting list for the privilege of living here.

And....there wasn't even any air conditioning.

Anonymous said...

The sooner CW and it's first mortgage goes bust the better. We in no way benefit from their ability to service their debt. If they can't make a go of it, they should sell their note at a discount and move on. Then the next owners--whomever they may be--can resume running the community in a responsible way.

No amount of yoga classes, coffee trucks, illegal NFL events or ill-fated skating rinks are going to bring CW enough cash to make a go of it so it is just a matter of time. The sooner we get through the second foreclosure/bankruptcy, the sooner the community can return to normal.

And, Adam, turn of your goddam caps lock for heaven's sake.

Fed Up Tenant said...

The best way to get CW Capitol and Management's attention on this issue might be to email the NY Post reporter - Jeane Macintosh - who wrote the article last month about the furniture, etc. dumping problem here. Her piece was entitled "This place is a pig Stuy!". If you haven't read it yet, here's a link to it: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/this_place_is_pig_stuy_L3O7lQt01i27t2HpoGSUfI

CW Capitol and Management went ABSOLUTELY CRAZY when that article appeared. They hate any kind of bad press that would negatively impact their ability to rent apartments here. The more people Ms. Macintosh hears from the better so everybody please email her right away. You can reach her at: jeane.macintosh@nypost.com.

Anonymous said...

This dialogue is so necessary for this community. These are all important issues; was the community included in the decisions for the rink, concerts, Oval glass cubes, yogurt truck, farmer's market? Why Playground 12 when it was so productively used, especially as an open and safe space for young children? Why is management not spending money on cleaner hallways, recycling centers, compactors, freshly painted walls, effectively ridding the property of vermin?

These are all issues that an effective tenants association would confront. When the management does not respond to the tenants' requests, the TA can escalate their tactics. Our TA talks with management, brings law suits for the most egregious assaults on the quality of our lives (i.e. ID keycards), and holds monumental informational meetings. If the tenants pay management to live here, we are in a position to use that leverage through our TA. That has never happened here.