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All comments to posts have to await approval. Approval does not happen immediately. NOTE: Comments reflect the opinions of the person writing them and should not be assumed to reflect the opinion of the blog.

Management has two priorities: 1) Making sure money is made, hence upgrading and filling up apartments is their goal. "Amenities" are important in selling the place, though few residents use them. 2) If someone needs medical attention, Public Safety will be there, if alerted.

Quality of life issues are not that important, however. They tend to be ignored, despite "the rules." So you will see a lot that isn't taken care of properly, and complaints will be met with a creative excuse and a smile.

"Peace and quiet" must be a cruel joke, though this property is sold that way. There can be no peace and quiet as ALL apartments must be upgraded, which includes the installation of an AC unit below the window. Aside from the continual construction about the neighborhood, there is a new and noisy subway extension being built along East 14 st and the shut down of the L line. "Choosing" to live in NYC, now the newest mantra, is a fabrication when the talk is of ST and PCV, which was traditionally quiet, with no construction noise.

Though money was always important, it is now more important than ever. Money rules many things, as you will find.

At this point, 30 years into living here and seeing many things, I can state that Management and their reps are BS-ing us. I can't say that loudly enough: We are being BS-ed. I don't see any genuine change. Sorry.

Saturday, January 19, 2013

"There’s no room for the earlier version of the middle class.”


Yup, you can forget about "affordable middle class housing" in Manhattan.  The politicians paved the way for this, with Bloomberg as the master planner and the City Council as his confederates.

Read this and weep:

NT Times article, "What is Middle Class in Manhattan?"

Some choice sentences:

The average Manhattan apartment, at $3,973 a month, costs almost $2,800 more than the average rental nationwide.

It is not surprising, then, that a family of four with an annual income of $68,700 or less qualifies to apply for the New York City Housing Authority’s public housing. 

Firefighter, police officer, teacher and manufacturing worker all used to be professions that could lift a family into its ranks. But those kinds of jobs have long left people unable to keep up with soaring real estate prices.  

Only 17 percent of Manhattan households have children, according to census data. That is almost half the national average, making little ones the ultimate deal-breaker for otherwise die-hard middle-class Manhattanites. 

“Manhattan has serious affordability problems,” said Mr. Braconi, the economist. In the last decade, the percentage of people who are paying “unaffordable rents” (defined as more than 30 percent of their income) has increased significantly, according to a report issued in September by the city’s comptroller. If that trend continues, it will feed the perennial panic that Manhattan’s middle class is on the brink of extinction, no longer able to cope with the city’s prices and fast retreating to its natural habitat, the suburbs.

The only young people she sees moving in around her are often buoyed by parental support, given an apartment at graduation the way she was given a Seiko watch. 

93 comments:

Anonymous said...

This is exactly as Mayor "Nanny State" Bloomberg wants it. In his view Manhattan, except for the low income housing projects, is for the rich only. the mere mortals of the middle class have no right to live in Manhattan , in his view . They merely can come to work in Manhattan for Mayor "Nanny State" and the other Masters of the Universe who live in Manhattan and then need to return home to their homes outside Manhattan , all the while genuflecting to Mayor "Nanny State" and the other Masters of the Universe while thanking the MOTUs for not firing them (yet) . Speaking of MOTUs anyone else notice the hundreds of millions of dollars in stock awarded to "key " executives of Goldman this week? They produce little or nothing for the economy except for increasing their own wealth annually.

Anonymous said...

I was reading through the comment on that article and was a little startled at some of the venomous undiluted JEALOUSY some folks feel toward tenants of RS and RC apartments, especially in Manhattan. Such emotions (2 of the Seven Deadlies for Bible buffs) can drive people over the edge. However, it also gave me a strange glow of satisfaction, knowing Ithat I am pissing off such people! Guess I'm getting perverse in my old age!

Anonymous said...

So true 10:32 So true. And there's no going back now.

Stuy Town Reporter said...

Speaking of venomous undiluted jealousy, that's also happening here in PCVST with some "market-raters." Not too long ago one of these Stuy Town Mommie Facebook groups was cheering on the possibility of getting the older timers here kicked out because of postings on the TA Facebook page. Strange, but true!

Anonymous said...

@STR Some of those mamas are gone from the TA page as well as the mama page. The TA likes them though and gives them parade tickets because they're "connected."

Anonymous said...

STR, with all due respect, some of those old timers you speak of were extremely provocative, to put it mildly! The funny thing is, though, those same old timers were always on the old LL site (they are very recognizable to some of us) and used to get into flame wars with each other! Their language would be sprinkled with "c..." words it was like gang warfare! Just horrible!

Anonymous said...

On 23rd Street at Madison Ave, south side, there is a monstrosity of a building put up a few years. Grossly out of proportion with the buildings around it, this monstrosity must have been given a zoning variance with Bloomberg's blessing. On west Spring St, Trump was allowed to build a condo-hotel 25 stories taller than the surrounding buildings. Bloomberg has been an utter disaster for middle class tenants and has helped his real estate buddies steadily wreck neighbors and Manhattan cityscapes. Goodbye, Market-rate Mike, & good riddance. Go back to wall street.

Anonymous said...

"The funny thing is, though, those same old timers were always on the old LL site (they are very recognizable to some of us) and used to get into flame wars with each other!"

Now referred to as "the good ol' days!"

Anonymous said...

I never once saw the "C" word used on the TA Page. They would not have allowed that kind of language there.

The problems started when the mommies decided the quality of life problems were too negative to discuss and then picked fights over and over again. The "old timers" were no saints, but there was a clear point when that page fell apart and it was when the mommies came out to harass.

Stuy Town Reporter said...

>>On 23rd Street at Madison Ave, south side, there is a monstrosity of a building put up a few years. Grossly out of proportion with the buildings around it, this monstrosity must have been given a zoning variance with Bloomberg's blessing. On west Spring St, Trump was allowed to build a condo-hotel 25 stories taller than the surrounding buildings. Bloomberg has been an utter disaster for middle class tenants and has helped his real estate buddies steadily wreck neighbors and Manhattan cityscapes.<<

I despise that building on 23rd and Madison. A great eyesore. Ugly, ugly, ugly.

Anonymous said...

No one said the "c" word was used on the TT page. It was spewed around on the LL page by certain "ladies."
The building on 23/Mad was meant to outdo the ESB, but the owners ran out of money (around era of depression), so it was topped off at the height it is, which is why it is a squat skyscraper wannabe.

Anonymous said...

the all-glass building on the corner of 23 Street and Second Ave is also a monstrosity

Anonymous said...

It's one thing to be provocative in ideas, we need that. But so many of those "old timers" were really just trolls who wanted to cause trouble. They weren't about solving problems as much as about shutting down discussion. They are not missed, believe me.

Anonymous said...

What shut down discussions was the mommies who insisted on telling people how to behave. My jaw hit the ground the day one mommy randomly accused a few people of being insensitive to the CT school shooting because they were joking about Kleenex. We were all like WHAT????

Anonymous said...

What problems did the "old timers" on the TAFB solve?

Anonymous said...

The TA hasn't won all the battles it's fought, but they led the charge on fighting the rewiring MCI (arguably the weak link was our lawyer at the time coupled with stonewalling from MetLife). They've also told us how to fight other MCIs--and would anyone here argue that so many tenants would have filed PARs (or known how to) without prompting from the TA? (The TA doesn't have the legal standing to file the PARs on its own). Right now a lot of MCIs are hanging fire, and I expect we'll find out on Saturday what is happening with them.

Anonymous said...

They were instrumental in getting AIRBNB to remove Stuy Town apartments from their listings.

Anonymous said...

The old timers ARE missed...trust me! They were never in a real position to "solve" but at least were adult enough to bring matters to a public forum and prompt discussion. Sometimes, if things are not brought to light, management gets a pass on their usual and customary maintenance.

Anonymous said...

At least the old timers know how to exploit the funny. Those mommies wouldn't know a punchline (or recognize irony) if it bit'em.

They showed up outta nowhere, wrapped super=tight, and just started scolding. DISCUSSION is ever so much more effective without the scolding. Now, discussion on the TA FB page is DOA and it's become a flea market and lost & found instead. Such a pity.

Anonymous said...

The "C" word was never used on LL. Lux was very skillful in moderating that page. Please don't attempt to rewrite history and spew lies out of your own bigotry.

Anonymous said...

"They were instrumental in getting AIRBNB to remove Stuy Town apartments from their listings."

As of today, January 21 there are over 5 Stuytown listings on AirBNB. I don't think the "old timers" did anyting insturmental.

Anonymous said...

A lot of members of the TA's Facebook page did NOT find the "witches"/"old-timers" mocking and attempts to cow posters at all funny and conveyed that to the TA. It was disturbing and the TA was right to put an end to it. The witches/old timers were warned several times by the TA to knock it off, but they seemed unable or unwilling to do so. So, eventually, after cutting them a lot of slack, the TA announced that posts would have to be approved by one of the moderators before they would be allowed to be posted. If the witches/old timers could have contained themselves yet still brought important issues to tenants' notice, it would have been a win win for everyone. Unfortunately, they could not. Pity.



Anonymous said...

Sorry, but the old-timers were virtually always mean-spirited (not at all funny) and hijacked whole threads over and over again, which drove people away from the site.

It's much friendlier and helpful now, and a far better resource for tenants.

Anonymous said...

The "C" word was never used on LL. Lux was very skillful in moderating that page. Please don't attempt to rewrite history and spew lies out of your own bigotry.>>

Excuse me, but I can well remember someone who posted as "The Dutchess" being called "Dutchc...t" by the "ladies" of the LL page. I can also remember somebody flying off the handle and calling someone else a "Cyberc..." Very selective memories you old timers have.

Anonymous said...

Discussion on the TA Facebook page is NOT DOA. What it is now is CIVIL and RESPECTFUL. While they may have been funny sometimes, the old timers contempt for people who think differently than they do or have different needs and their attacks on those people were not at all funny.

Anonymous said...

How are we defining " old timers"? It sounds offensive.

Anonymous said...

"At least the old timers know how to exploit the funny. Those mommies wouldn't know a punchline (or recognize irony) if it bit'em.

They showed up outta nowhere, wrapped super=tight, and just started scolding. DISCUSSION is ever so much more effective without the scolding. Now, discussion on the TA FB page is DOA and it's become a flea market and lost & found instead. Such a pity."

When you were on the TA FB there was not discussion. You made mocked other's sexual orientation and eyebrows constantly - just like a child. No one was allowed to post anything without your condescending comments.

Anonymous said...

Who is "you" and "old timers" ?

People can't carry on a comment thread with anonymous posters and ASSume that every post is made by the same person or persons.

Either refer to specific quotes and posts, or please don't make generalized statements. There are a lot of different anonymous posters here with very valid opinions.

Anonymous said...

This tread proves that rehashing old disputes from dead blogs and facebook is really effing boring.

Anonymous said...

"You made mocked other's sexual orientation and eyebrows constantly - just like a child. No one was allowed to post anything without your condescending comments."

Why are you assuming the person you are speaking of is reading this site? Grow up already. There are more important things to talk about such as the buildings without laundry, access to storage areas, maintenance not responding to requests, etc. Can you please find it within yourself to stop bringing the conversation back to you?

Anonymous said...

BTW @5:06, I am still ON the TA FB page. Making some assumptions about people's identities? I could care less about eyebrows, etc. Get real. Be a grownup. Move on.

Anonymous said...

If by "Civil and respectful" you mean dull, boring, and useless, then I guess you're right. Give me an honest discussion, USEFUL information, and a bit of humor and at least I'll find it worthwhile tuning in. Now? Not so much...

Anonymous said...

January 22, 2013 at 12:50 PM
Obviously they stopped bothering with the hotels. They don't have to do anything. Maybe when there's a hotel on your floor you'll do the job.

Anonymous said...

1:21--how do you or anyone know that there are "a lot of different anonymous posters here?" I bet there isn't, and wish everyone had to sign in. An alias would be fine.

Anonymous said...

STR knows if there are different posters, he has access to everyone's posting IP.

Anonymous said...

"If by "Civil and respectful" you mean dull, boring, and useless, then I guess you're right.

Sorry, but the TA's Facebook page is NOT useless, but if you don't find it useful, then don't visit it. Unfortunately, I doubt that you would recognize "civil and respectful" if it jumped up and danced a jig in front of you!

Anonymous said...

I do think it's hysterical that you have one anonymous ranting at another anonymous...though I suspect that's a reaction to the trolls on the TA FB page who themselves were too scared to post under their real names but would publicly ridicule and repost any "real person's" posts. So now we have a bunch of scared anonymouses, if you will, ranting at each other.

I would prefer aliases over anonymous so at least you can address someone directly, but there's such an atmosphere of distrust, public ridicule and neighbor turning in neighbor out of spite, that no one will ever use their real name.

Anonymous said...

You know what's even funnier. One anoynmous complaining about 2 other anonymouses complaining. I guess that last anonymous complaint was supposed to be some backdoor defense of the TAFB page...which still remains censored.

Anonymous said...

Be quiet already and go tuck the baby into the closet or the flag pole or wherever you freaks raise them these days!

Anonymous said...

I wrote that last post and it's not a back door defense, my friend. It's a straight forward defense of the civility and respectfulness that now reIgns on the TA's Facebook page. I suspect that YOU were one of the culprits mocking, flaming and deriding others on that page. If so, good riddance to you and bravo to the TA for putting an end to the likes to you and your buddies. It was YOUR crappyy behavior that forced the TA to take action. You were warned to knock it off several times and you refused to do so. The TA page is NOT censored now, rather it is moderated so you can't take it over like you did in the past. This is now the new normal because of YOU. Get used to it. You will never again get to act out and behave badly there. Thank God.

Anonymous said...

January 25, 2013 at 10:07 PM
Thank God? For what? The lost & found? The flea market? Needy people? Restaurant reviews? Come on, will ya? You can find something more important to thank your God for, can't you?

Anonymous said...

I love the moderated TA page too! It's fascinating study in lonely people with nothing to say cluttering up the internet. The duller the topic the greater the reply. It's like an old lady on amphetamines.

Anonymous said...

For those people who say they can't STAND the new, more civilized, TA Facebook page, you seem to know EVERYTHING that's being posted there. Don't like what's happening on that page now? FEEL FREE NOT TO VISIT IT ANY LONGER!!!! Your nonsense and incivility are NOT missed and your rants on this page are only making it ABUNDANTLY clear it's driving you CRAZY that you can't hijack that page any more.

Anonymous said...

Yes...let's all go to the TA page & be put to sleep. It's better than medication.

Anonymous said...

In general the TA's facebook page is a waste of time because it's mostly bored people making small talk or looking for information that can easily be found with a quick Google search. I still check it out once in a while though hoping there is something of substance on their. I'm an optimist.

Anonymous said...

@Anonymous 9:57 Why do you care so much what these people are saying? They are not on the TA page anymore so move on already. Or maybe you DO care what they are saying which is why you can't stop talking about them. One thing is clear you desperately need a life honey.

Anonymous said...

Talk about rants. Try looking at the post at 9:57AM.

Anonymous said...

Anon 9:57 - You are spot on in what you say. Spot on.

Anonymous said...

"It's 10PM. Do you know where you child is?"

Sleeping in the NTT storage locker!

Anonymous said...

Anon 9:57 PM:

Wrong.

It was your constant bullying that drove the only tenants who were successfully improving living conditions off the TA FB page. Nice job -- you and your BFFs have turned the TA FB page into another Angie's List, simply because you couldn't tolerate those who were actively fighting for change -- their efforts were even reported in The New York Times. When was the last time YOU or your BFFs were commended in The New York Times for improving the quality of life in STPCV? That's right -- never. No, all you and your BFFs do is exploit the TA FB page to sell your flat screen TVs, Manolo Blahnik shoes, and look for advice on how to store a baby in a closet. Well done!

Anonymous said...

Oh my god I can't believe all the hate for mommies on this site. So what if most of us live up to every negative stereotype of present day parenthood with our cliques, self-absorption, childish behavior and vindictive tendencies. Don't you dare disagree with us, ever, at all, because we'll talk about our contempt for you "old timers" endlessly on blogs, websites, Facebook pages, in letters to the local newspaper and to people standing on line in Starbucks, CVS, Walgreens and Duane Reade. That is when we have some down time from scheming to get you all evicted. And don't you dare comment on our childish behavior and vindictive tendencies because we'll only do it more. We're 30-something going on 13 and we're really good at justifying our bad behavior because we're mommies and you're not. We're special and you're not. Remember that!

Anonymous said...

Now who's ranting?

Anonymous said...

Agree completely with Anon 9:57. The TA Facebook page was out of control until the posts were subjected to approval.

Bottom line - If you have something useful to say and can do it in a civilized way, your post will be allowed. If not, it won't. Period. You bullies brought this on yourselves with your relentless attacks on other people. You were warned and ignored the warnings so the TA had to do something. You're the reason that all the rest of us now have to wait to have our posts approved. Thanks a lot.

Since they'll take it anyway, let's all give the bullies the last word on this topic and move on.

Anonymous said...

Bottom line - If you have something useful to say and can do it in a civilized way, your post will be allowed. If not, it won't. Period. You bullies brought this on yourselves with your relentless attacks on other people. You were warned and ignored the warnings so the TA had to do something. You're the reason that all the rest of us now have to wait to have our posts approved. Thanks a lot.

That's just bull. The TA censors it's sight and doesn't allow through anything that questions it's decisions, period. When the site first opened I was a member and I questioned why the TA wasn't fighting against Tishman and instead was becoming the sales dept for Brookfield in very polite terms. Arlene Miller removed my post and banned me. When I questioned Al Doyle as to why, he said Arlene was a little overzealous. Overzealous my ass, she has ruined the TA site and has been a major factor in making the TA as irrelevant as they are today.

Anonymous said...

To set the record straight. As I recall, there was only one person who was really abrasive. The rest of the censorship was against anybody asking questions or expressing doubt about the TA hooking up with Brookfield. All this hyperbole & ranting and against ranting at the tafb page is just obfuscation & tactical diverson. The fact seems to be that the TA's hook-up with Brookfield is so fragile & questionable that the TA filters and suspresses anything on its sites that might compell the board to answer.

Anonymous said...

Unfortunately, your version of setting the record straight is only that - YOUR version. The friends of the really abrasive person all gleefully chimed in when that person went on a rant or went after another poster. Very ugly. Glad the TA finally put a stop to it. Who behaves like that on a public forum? Very disturbing and inappropriate and unpleasant to see.

As for the TA and Brookfield hook-up, I have personally posted comments about aspects of it and asked questions of TA President John Marsh that were neither censored or ignored. I may be on the fence about the hook-up, but they are willing to answer those questions that they can. People keep asking how much their apartment will cost, but how can either the TA or Brookfield say without knowing what the purchase price will be? If that seems like obfuscation to you, what can I say.

Anonymous said...

Anon 8:52 AM:

Yes, just like your interpretation of what happened on the TA page is YOUR version, and completely untrue.

Anonymous said...

Anon 12:56:

The TA's Facebook page had gotten out of control. That is a fact. Otherwise, the TA would not have had to resort to approving posts before allowing them to be published. Ignore the facts if you want to, but don't claim that what I said is untrue. The facts speak for themselves.

Anonymous said...

"I have personally posted comments about aspects of it and asked questions of TA President John Marsh that were neither censored or ignored."

I somehow doubt that these were questions & answers that really told anything important about why the TA needed to hook up with any sponsor or what benefits any of us get from the partnership with Brookfield.

But please tells us the questions you asked & the answers you got. That's the best way for us to understand what you're saying.

Anonymous said...

Sorry, but I am not interested in repeating all the questions I asked or information I received. Suffice it to say that I received answers and information that helped me to better understand the TA's thinking. The TA has has provided many, many ways and opportunities for everyone to better understand the TA's thinking and their aproach and for tenants to educate themselves, if they care to. I cared to.

Anonymous said...

"Sorry, but I am not interested in repeating all the questions..."

Right. And that's the TA lacks credibility. A TA exists for only one reason: to get things for tenants. Usually from management. I believe the TA said it reviewed something like 60 sponsor plans before making a choice. I seriously doubt any sponsor submitted an eviction plan to the TA. Under these circumstances, the TA is unable to answer the simplest question. With many sponsors offering non-eviction plans, specifically what are you getting for us in making an alliance with Brookfield? With respect to price? Maintenance? Anything? And why should CW care two pins if the TA Board decided it likes Brookfield? How does that count for anything?

Anonymous said...

They were censored because they were trying to sell their ugly sofa and baby furniture.

Anonymous said...

Anon 7:05 PM,

Yes, the TAP FB page did get out of control, thanks to the constant bullying by the Mom Zombies. I, for one, quit the page because those young narcissists and their sense of entitlement was doing NOTHING to improve quality of life issues here. Also, once those tenants left who were actually succeeding in improving quality of life issues here, there was no reason for myself and others to remain. I'm not interested in buying your flat screen TV or helping you convert a closet into a nursery.

Such a shame that John Marsh is more interested in brown-nosing than improving qualities of life issues here.

Anonymous said...

@2:39. Nice. Very nice of you to share the information which you found so helpful. With more selfish behavior like you're (once again) displaying it's a wonder there's any sense of community left here at all!

The "old timers" who you & your newbie pals seem so intent on removing (or having removed) from this community which they've called home & invested in for many, many years, would certainly share any & all information (of every kind) if it meant helping anyone at all. Clearly, you're interested in enlightening only yourself & the other "entitleds" who march in lockstep with you. Hopefully your children will learn the concept of sharing at their pre-school since they'll clearly never learn by the example set in your home. Shame on you.

Anonymous said...

Speaking of Mom Zombies there was a group of them in Starbucks yesterday letting their children run wild. They were tossing food from the cooler on the floor and broke a display sign. When the manager asked them to control their kids one of the moms snapped back at him and they all left leaving a pile of shredded napkins and Cheerios all over the floor. Pigs.

Anonymous said...

Just admit it. You people hate the TA and nothing anyone could say would change your minds. Whatever someone does say here that is positive about the TA, you find a way to twist to show how awful you think it is. You will never be convinced otherwise and engaging with you and your closed minds that are unable or unwilling to see any other point of view besides your own is a waste of time.

Anonymous said...

I don't recall ever seeing anybody trying to sell an old sofa or baby clothes on the TAFB. True, somebody sold a flat screen television and somebody else asked to borrow a vcr, but I don't recall any other sales offerings. I thought that the trading of old baby furniture and clothes was on the Oval Families FB page and the thread about converting closets into nurseries was purloined from there? I don't miss the snide humor and vindictiveness that has gone away now. I think it was a bunch of bored old ladies perpetrating that stuff.

Anonymous said...

I wish the TA would go back to its old mission of addressing quality of life issues and drop its pie-in-the-sky quest for ownership. I think that Garodnick and his money-monger, developer and law firm friends have talked up a talk that has the TA fooled. The only people who would benefit from such a venture would be said money mongers, developers, et al. (and Danny-boy himself). Maybe some tenants would like to buy their units, but I sure wouldn't. The carrying costs would be astronomical. It would be buying into a money pit.

Anonymous said...

For anyone interested in getting answers to specific questions about the TA's plan to bid, here is the phone number for their conversion question line:

(646) 403-9747

Anonymous said...

I'm glad ther TA is not allowing commercial Craigslist types of solicitations. It was only a matter of time before the moms started selling themselves on there.

Anonymous said...

Just admit it. You people hate the TA and nothing anyone could say would change your minds.

What's to like about the entity formerly known as the STPCVTA? They haven't been a tenants association for years now. They sat back and watched as the place fell apart right in front of them. They are the one's who blew up their former good will with tenants by willfully becoming both the sales team for Brookfield and a front for Dan Garodnick's law firm. They don't even realize that their participation makes the chances of Brookfield being the buyer harder. Now Brookfield will have to face lagal challenges from both other suitors and tenants who feel that Brookfield had an upper hand. Even if that is not true there will be lawsuits which will slow the deal by years. So, the TA has basically screwed both conversion supporters and those who don't want anything to do with a conversion. Poor decisions by the TA leadership who is being misled by Garodnick and his former law firm. They should cut ties with both and sue both to see if they can get back any of the good will they used to have with tenants otherwise they will always be scorned by the very people who made the TA into what it once was.

Anonymous said...

Major mold issue at 285 Avenue C Terrace entrance. Probably direct effect from Hurricane Sandy.

Called TA and management. Bad scene. Hope this can be resolved ASAP!





Anonymous said...

I want to own. And I like when the residents interact in a nice way and ask for advice, baby sitters, recommendations, offer things for sale (especially b/c we can't have tag sales anymore) and have more fun. I hated the snide, jeering comments by these creepy old residents. SOOOO glad they are gone.

Anonymous said...

"Just admit it. You people hate the TA...."

Far as I'm concerned, nothing could be farther from the truth. For all the QoL issues, in general going back many years, I think the TA has done a lot of good. Where the TA started losing support is in its handling of the conversion. Treating the whole place like a bunch of geriatrics whom they could lead around by the nose. Not answering tough questions publicly. Controlling communication tightly. Acting as if they had the 100% endorsement of all the tenants. Not explaining why they needed to form an alliance at all, not explaining what they were getting for us, why they needed to be in the mix. Not presenting a true picture of co-ops vs condos. Playing the conversion issue conversion to the community like a political campaign. Instead of just helping to lay out facts of the conversion as a business deal, just facilitating and helping people make up their own minds.

Anonymous said...

No one wants to buy their apartments to live here. People who plan to buy are only doing so to sell and make a profit. Thats why they are all in such a rush to get it going. You see, its expensive to keep paying 4k a month while waiting to flip their apartments.

Stuy Town Reporter said...

And I certainly don't "hate" the TA, and regularly voice my opinion that people should join and support it, as it's the only entity we have that is fighting for tenant rights here.

Anonymous said...

Have you been to any recent TA meetings? Have you read Town. & Village? Have you been to the TA conversion website? Have you been to any of the TA's many apartment meetings? Have you called their conversion phone line and asked questions?

The TA has answered ad naseum all the questions you claim they have not. You just don't like their answers because you are not in favor of conversion. And what a silly thing to say that everyone only wants to buy in order to flip their apartment. Absolutely untrue.

Anonymous said...

"They sat back and watched as the place fell apart right in front of them."

Which means exactly what? As much as you do not want the TA to try to own this place, please remember that they don't. Tishman and CW Capital have been in charge here since 2006 and they called the shots. Try to fight fair, if you have it in you, which I doubt given your prior comments here.

Anonymous said...

9:19 p.m.--You have NO idea what you're talking about. I would buy (particularly at that proposed very below market level) specifically BECAUSE I want to live here until the day I die. Not to sell (unless of course, I had to one day), but to live as my home for the rest of my life. You do not speak for me.

Anonymous said...

I favor conversion... but so far as I'm concerned the TA has answered nothing other than softball questions & the questions they feel like answering. But whoever feels they're on the side of the TA....just answer right here & now....in a situation where multiple non-eviction plans will be submitted to CW, what benefit, what value does the TA Board get for the tenants by making an alliance with any high stakes roller like Brookfield? And why should CW give a damn if the TA Board endorses Brookfield...particularly when the TA collects dues from about 10% of the units & it's not even clear that all of that 10% supports the TA Board in this conversion.

Anonymous said...

Anon 8:48

Your problem is that you don't understand how the eventual sale of this property is going to work.

CW Capital doesn't give a rat's ass about any kind of conversion plans and It doesn't need to. IF a conversion takes place, it will ONLY take place AFTER a sale to whomever has the deepest pockets and is willing to buy this place. The sale is NOT contingent on non-eviction plans or anything other than who is willing to spend the most money to own these 80 acres of Manhattan. Sale first; conversion after. And there's nothing to say that if someone other than the TA buys this property they won't just keep it as rentals.

Anonymous said...

wouldn't it be a laugh riot if Tishman Speyer bought the place again!!!! ROTFL!!!!!

Anonymous said...

"They sat back and watched as the place fell apart right in front of them."

Which means exactly what? As much as you do not want the TA to try to own this place, please remember that they don't. Tishman and CW Capital have been in charge here since 2006 and they called the shots. Try to fight fair, if you have it in you, which I doubt given your prior comments here.

I am sorry that you don't understand what that means, I can't think of smaller, easier to understand words to phrase it in.
Try to fight fair? That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard, particularly if you are a TA board member. Since you have no idea wht other posts I have made on here I won't bother to address that idiocy.
Was it fair or even legal that the board went out and cut a deal with no notice or permission from the very members who they were elected to serve? They are the board of directors of a membership organization, not a privately held corporation. At the very least, they had a moral obligation to present the plan to the entire membership BEFORE they cut any deal. Is it fair that dues paying members are treated like criminals for asking, very politely, questions of the board? Is it fair that the organization's facebook page is run in a fashion that would make Joseph Goebels (the Nazi regimes propaganda minister) blush with envy.
I understand that they are not the owners and just FYI they will never be the owners, Brookfield would be owners if chosen. In fact, if Brookfield is chosen wouldn't the board members who buy their apartments have to resign from the TENANTS association, since they would no longer be tenants?
Prior to TS and CW, MetLife owned ST/PCV. Back then, when things that are now routine QOL issues arose the TA stood up and fought the good fight. However, now the board of directors does very little besides writing letters. The board barely raised an eyebrow over the changes to the rules that both TS and CW initiated. The board rubber stamped the pimping out of the Oval to commercial venues (although 1 board member did protest, to no avail in the T&V), they looked the other way when bikes were allowed free access to the sidewalks in the oval (one of the only places in NYC where one is allowed to ride on the sidewalks), they offer little more than lip service on most major issues. Most likely because they didn't want to upset the group that would eventually choose whom to sell to. That being said you're right perhaps it is time to fight instead of venting on this site (although it is refreshing that there is at least one place where dissenters to the TA' plan can voice their opinion without being censored). I think a court of law is pretty fair, how about you?. I think it's time to have a conversation with some of the real estate lawyers I know about filing a lawsuit to get the TA to cease and desist. I have already spoken with attorneys from one of the best anti-trust firms in the world who have stated very plainly that a case could be made for collusion if Brookfield is chosen, at the very least thiese suits could stall any sale for years. Thanks for lighting the fire in my belly to go after this from a more "fair" venue.

Anonymous said...

Have you been to any recent TA meetings? Have you read Town. & Village? Have you been to the TA conversion website? Have you been to any of the TA's many apartment meetings? Have you called their conversion phone line and asked questions?

The TA has answered ad naseum all the questions you claim they have not. You just don't like their answers because you are not in favor of conversion. And what a silly thing to say that everyone only wants to buy in order to flip their apartment. Absolutely untrue.

I did attend the early meetings to see if the board would answer some basic questions like: Why did the board do all this planning in secrecy hiding all the negotiations from the members? How many members of the board plan to buy their apartments? A number of the board members are lawyers who generally make good money and could probably afford to buy, shouldn't anyone who is PLANNING to buy resign from the board if for no other reason than to eliminate even the hint of putting their personal interests above the best interest of the membership? One board member at least had the decency to tell me he wasn't sure if he would buy or not (makes you wonder why he would push the plan if even he isn't sure). If this is such a great plan for RS tenants would the board members be willing to sign a legally binding contract that states that they wont buy their apartments if for no other reason than to prove that they have the best interests of tenants in mind instead of the perception that the board is a self serving entity? What about Dan Garodnick, is he going to buy? What about his parents, if they buy also wouldn't Dan end up with 2 apartments at some point (hopefully a long time from now)? Is that a conflict of interest? Would Dan Garodnick commit to not buying? Dan Garodnick's former employer is running the show behind the scenes and stands to make a fortune should Brookfield be chosen. Dan Garodnick has received campaign contributions from said law firm. Is this crony capitalism? or worse, corruption? There are dozens more questions along this line that I have never seen the board or Dan Garodnick answer. Can anyone find answers to those questions in any of the boards meetings?

Anonymous said...

Excellent points 10:42 AM

Anonymous said...

9:19 p.m.--You have NO idea what you're talking about. I would buy (particularly at that proposed very below market level) specifically BECAUSE I want to live here until the day I die. Not to sell (unless of course, I had to one day), but to live as my home for the rest of my life. You do not speak for me.

OK sorry, almost no one wants to pay 3k per month to live on campus and are thus planning to sell as soon as they buy. Hundreds have moved in specifically to get the insider price to dump and run. Opening the way for even more dorm rooms...yay!

Anonymous said...

Thank you 10: 42, 11:05 & 2:17. Right on.

And 12:23...boy, do you not know what you're talking about. The plan submitted by the winning sponsor has to be approved by the state attorney general's office. So you think that unless the tenants all fall behind Brookfield, some other sponsor might win the bid proposing a non-eviction plan initially & then changing once they win the bid. That will have as much chance of getting the AG approval as you have about being right. But I go back to my main point for everyone to see as they've seen over and over again every time I ask. Just tell all of us...what has the TA Board gotten for the tenants...what value, what benefit...in making an alliance with Brookfield. And why should CW give a rat's ass about the TA Board (15 people) endorsing Brookfield?

Anonymous said...

I hope no conversion ever happens.

Anonymous said...

Anon 8:47 - You're the one who doesn't have a clue. And I think that you are posting all the supportive posts of your view, yourself.

This place will get sold to the highest bidder. A sale here is NOT contingent on conversion. If - after rhe sale - the AG doesn't approve the conversion plan, a conversion under that plan will not happen. The new owner/sponsor will have to revise their plan until the AG finds it acceptable.

Anonymous said...

1:23...No, I posted 8:38 2/5, 8:48 2/7 & 8:47 2/9. What you don't want to accept is that there are plenty of people who don't understand or support what the TA Board & Garodnick have done with Brookfield. You can suspect all you want. What really counts is what sense & information viewers get from the exchange. I just don't get your comment. Originally you implied only Brookfield could be trusted by the tenants. How you reach that conclusion is still a mystery.

Anonymous said...

I completely understand - and accept - that lots of people don't understand or support what the TA Board and Garodnick have done with Brookfield. At the moment, I am not one of them and I am satisfied enough by the answers I have received so far as to why the TA did what it did. However, I do not believe that only Brookfield can be trusted. In fact, I bet that when it comes down to it, other solid candidates will step up to the plate to partner with the TA and the TA will then review its options and decide who has the most to offer.

Anonymous said...

Not to belabor an already belabored point, but when you say 'what the TA has done'...that's still my open question. What did they do? They didn't vet anything with tenants in advance, they made a surprise announcement (most of us had no idea they were reviewing plans), they acted as if they were acting with the full backing of all the tenants, they said they like sponsor X instead of all other sponsors implying they know what's best for all of us & we should be unified in supporting their choice because....why? Then they gave us a bunch of bogus reasons after the fact that don't hold up to easy scrutiny. So what have they really done? As I see it, nothing...but cloud the issue. Some people's comments imply they think that the TA-Brookfield is the only game in town. They think they're getting something special out of the TA's alliance. Or that whatever Brookfield proposes has to be the best deal for them because the TA says so. All baloney.

Anonymous said...

Partnering with the TA buys a sponsor exactly nothing. They might think of it as a nice to have, but in truth it has absolutely no real value in the marketplace.