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Sunday, February 7, 2010

Eat Your Dog



The decision by Tishman Speyer to reverse the long-standing rule in Stuyvesant Town/Peter Cooper Village against dog ownership by tenants was one of the worst decisions made by the company and when TS leaves (hopefully soon), this decision will no doubt remain in place and be the gift that keeps on giving--as in more dog dumps and dog crap smears on the sidewalk, urine on the grass, noise from barking dogs in apartments, dog urine in elevators, and the ever present smell of a zoo in many parts of the complex. As was to be expected, dog owners have not obeyed the dog rules that TS set up and our crack security team (which is, let's face it, both lousy and lazy) has not enforced these rules with any consistency. I've seen dogs piss in the grass right in front of the Oval security booth without a word from the security guard inside (if he happens to be there, of course).

The dog owners of this complex have a sense of entitlement regarding their pooches and the patronizing, morally superior sense that you are sub-human if you don't love their beasts and think them cute and adorable. Perish the thought that these Fidos may actually be lessening the quality of life of everyone else in the complex.

As the years go by, it's going to get worse. Whoever will manage this place may as well give up and throw all dog rules out the window. Let dogs piss and crap wherever they want to, run free without leashes--and as for dog runs--well, that's what the playgrounds are for, no?

Now comes evidence that having a dog is bad for the environment. Yes, you green-living loving dog owners, your dog is ruining the quality of life for the entire planet and plunging it into an Al Gore Armageddon!

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/national/2987821/Save-the-planet-eat-a-dog

Victoria University professors Brenda and Robert Vale, architects who specialise in sustainable living, say pet owners should swap cats and dogs for creatures they can eat, such as chickens or rabbits, in their provocative new book Time to Eat the Dog: The real guide to sustainable living.

The couple have assessed the carbon emissions created by popular pets, taking into account the ingredients of pet food and the land needed to create them.

"If you have a German shepherd or similar-sized dog, for example, its impact every year is exactly the same as driving a large car around," Brenda Vale said.

"A lot of people worry about having SUVs but they don't worry about having Alsatians and what we are saying is, well, maybe you should be because the environmental impact ... is comparable."

In a study published in New Scientist, they calculated a medium dog eats 164 kilograms of meat and 95kg of cereals every year. It takes 43.3 square metres of land to produce 1kg of chicken a year. This means it takes 0.84 hectares to feed Fido.

They compared this with the footprint of a Toyota Land Cruiser, driven 10,000km a year, which uses 55.1 gigajoules (the energy used to build and fuel it). One hectare of land can produce 135 gigajoules a year, which means the vehicle's eco-footprint is 0.41ha – less than half of the dog's.

More at the above link.

85 comments:

matt said...

I have a few points of contention to address within this post:

1) Are you advocating Stuy Town to allow owners to have chickens in their apartments? Surely that would create more of a "zoo-like" atmosphere than dogs...

2) Why does a dog peeing in the landscaped areas affect you in any way? I would much rather a dog do their business where I'm not travelling (aka in the myriad of bushes, foliage in Stuy Town) than in the middle of a walkway...And I have NEVER found dog urine in an elevator!

3) I know you're using this book for its shock value, but the study is completely absurd and baseless. Dog food is comprised of animal byproducts that would otherwise go to waste; the resources used by a car (let alone the carbon output of the vehicle!) are completely unrelated to what an animal consumes. Are we feeding dogs oil or coal? No. (Also, this is comparing the quantity of food consumed by a German Shepherd...Last time I checked the majority of Stuy Town dogs are under 20 pounds).



Stuy Town is a lovely place to own a dog. At first I expected to be confronted daily by rude, heartless people such as yourself while walking my pet, but I quickly realized how few there are who feel similarly as yourself. Everyone I meet loves the dog. I keep thinking I'll run into a person such as you, but I have yet to encounter such animosity.

Stuy Town Reporter said...

You do know that dogs in the grass or gardens are against ST/PCV rules? What say you? Those rules are not for you?

Anonymous said...

I love the dogs. Let's get rid of the NYU students and then the quality of life will improve. They have done more to destroy the quality of life here than the Hounds of Hell themselves!

Anonymous said...

Today I witnessed 2 large dog dumps on walkways in PCV. Seems that some people are starting to think that with TS gone noone is watching. I love dogs, crappy dog owners are the problem

Anonymous said...

Gotta agree with the 2 Anonymous posts. The dogs are beautiful. It's some dog owners & NYU people who cause the problems.

Anonymous said...

The sweeping generalizations made in this article blaming all dog owners for the faults of a few leave the writer with no credibility for any of his statements. There's never been dog urine in my building elevators. It's very unfortunate that some dog owners who may or may not live here do not clean up aftr their dogs. I've cleaned up after a thoughtless dog owner or two. I'm sure others do so also. Dogs and dog owners have enhanced my community experience in Stuy Town where I've lived for over 30 years, but I always try to respect others' feelings towards dogs when my dog and I are in their presence.

Anonymous said...

The lease rider that's signed by all dog owners stipulates that dogs are to be only walked off property, not in the Oval, or on the paths. They are prohibited from any of the planted or grassy areas, as well as the playgrounds.

Now, how closely are these rules being followed ? Answer, not at all. I have dog owners in my building who's idea of "walking" their dog is to take it to the garden directly outside the T or M entrance. Is leaving a pool of dog urine outside the front door considered respectful to their neighbors ? I've seen it happen time and time again.

And here's another peach of entitled behavior, dog owners allowing their animals on predatory chases of squirrels and pigeons. I've seen several people allow their animals to hunt our beloved squirrels. How is this cruel and sadistic behavior considered acceptable ? If you read the NY leash laws, you will find that leashes need to be 6 feet long, not a 20 foot wire, and that owners are required to keep their animals in control at all times. Chasing other animals is specifically forbidden.

And I agree with ST Reporter that I too now commonly see feces on the paths and left in the gardens, as well as around the perimeters of ST & PCV. 23rd Street and Avenue C are noticeably filthy and littered with feces.

Now, faced with these realities, how do we get our irresponsible dog owners to abide by them ? If we cannot, we will be faced with a community that will become a most unpleasant place to live, and will have a significant impact on the quality of life in ST/PCV in the future.

I think the new management of ST/PCV needs to make enforcement of these laws and rules one of their top priorities to make this community livable for the future.

Stuy Town Reporter said...

No dog urine in elevators? Why, then, did management remove carpeting from elevators?

Anonymous said...

I love the dogs, even though I don't have one myself. I think they have brought a real sense of life and enjoyment to many people in the complex that was missing before.

I have more problem with the dog complainers.

A rational person would rather have a dog do its business on the grass than on the walkway. Are you sniffing the grass to detect a whiff of dog urine?!? Please spare us all.

Stuy Town Reporter said...

BTW, I used to qualify my statements about dog owners with "some," but when I'm out in Stuy Town or Peter Cooper Village almost every single dog owner I see is ignoring at least one of TS' dog rules.

matt said...

There's a difference between taking a dog for a walk and allowing the dog a chance to urinate. No dog would urinate directly in front of a door. I've never seen it and it's not in a dog's nature to do that. However, yes, I do find it completely appropriate to allow the dog to urinate in the grassy areas. Again, would you prefer they urinate on the sidewalk where you travel? I still cannot understand how this affects your experience of Stuy Town in any way. Obviously there are a few frustrating and careless owners who don't pick up after their dogs, but that is so far from the majority its not even worthy of mention.

And hunting squirrels? Or pigeons? I have never seen this. Ever. The majority of dogs in Stuy Town are small and couldn't kill, let alone catch, a rodent if they wanted to. This is the most absurd statement I've ever heard.

Before I owned a dog in Stuy Town I never had much contact with dogs in the community. Owning one now I realize the lovely sense of community it engenders. Even just creating opportunity to meet neighbors who previously seemed to shun anyone who hadn't lived in the building for 80 years.

As for the elevators, the removal of the carpets due to animal urine is purely of your own conjecture. I could just as well argue they were from the careless owners of christmas trees who dragged the dying pine down to T and left the needles digging into the carpet.

Stuy Town Reporter said...

Regarding smelling urine in the grass areas, it's very easy if you sit on some of the benches in the Oval. Or if you walk out in the back M areas where dog owners really let their dogs run wild.

matt said...

The M level is a great area for dog owners to give their dogs a place to urinate. Its one of the few things that give me pause when I consider moving to a new apartment. The beauty of that outdoor space and the opportunity for the dog to urinate without distraction right outside the building is a true gift in NYC.

Stuy Town Reporter said...

How wonderful!

Stuy Town Reporter said...

Carpets in elevators were removed way before Christmas, btw.

Anonymous said...

The carpets in my building were put back in right as Christmas was approaching—and as another mentioned, both elevator banks were completely covered in needles.

I'm also an environmentalist, but think if you're concerned about sustainable living, you should be looking at the footprint of humans. You may be surprised how small a dog's footprint looks after this.

Anonymous said...

Read the lease rider that you signed matt. Since you're a dog owner, it's obvious that you aren't interested in giving an inch in this discussion. All the statements I made about ill behaved dog owners are pure fact.

Anonymous said...

I've seen a woman cleaning up dog urine in the elevator in my building. I've seen people letting their dogs do their business on the grass and the pavement. I have two barking dogs underneath me, and I hear them every day and night. The green areas are for everyone, not just lazy (yes, you're lazy) dog owners who won't take their animals to the gutter. Why are dog urine and feces acceptable on our sidewalks, buildings, plants, fences, etc.? Pretty soon the urine-soaked grass will be dead, by the way. Dog owners are not entitled to destroy our homes. Get over yourselves and learn to build relationships without the crutch of an animal.

Anonymous said...

The carpets were removed becasue they were never being cleaned! Elervators are a high traffic area, and if you don't clean the floor, the carpets will smell. One elervator in my building has had the carpet put back due to the floor tile coming up. Nothing to do with dogs. I have seen vomit and used condoms on the elevator floor. Unless the dogs are binge drinking and having safe sex, my bet it's humans making the mess. I have seen the elervator floors covered with Xmas tree neddles, before and after carpeting, going to blame the dogs for that too. I have seen way more cig. butts lying on the ground by "M" then dog poop? Are the dogs smoking after having sex in the elervators? And then the red rubberbands all over the place, and elervator floors, and on "M", and the hallways? Are the dogs leaving the rubberbands behind after reading their newspapers?
The Laundry rooms are a pig pen, are the dogs not cleaning up after they use the laundry rooms?
I have never seen a dog chase any of the rodents (four/two legged or ones with wings) that call Stuytown their home. Most of been a real slow news day if you are back to focusing on dogs again!

Anonymous said...

Dog leash law (167;161.05)

If you are walking a dog in a public and / or open area next to a public area it is necessary to have your dog on a leash and that leash can be no more than six feet.
Canine waste law:

("pooper scooper law" - section 1310 of New York State public health code) Plain and simple you must clean up after your dog on the street.

The animal nuisance law (167;161.03)

Any person who owns a cat, dog, or any other animal will not allow that animal to create a public nuisance in either a public place or an open area, wall, fence, window next to a public place.

Stuy Town Reporter said...

"I'm also an environmentalist, but think if you're concerned about sustainable living, you should be looking at the footprint of humans. You may be surprised how small a dog's footprint looks after this."

I don't think we're going to get rid of humans in this complex, but limiting the amount of dogs is environmentally a good idea. No more Fidos! Save Stuy Town and the planet!

Anonymous said...

I live in a building with quite a few dogs... One apt. next door has two dogs. I never hear any barking?? I very rarley see any dog poop on the sidewalk in Stuyvesant Town??. I never walk on the grass so I am not worried about stepping on dog urine? and most of the grassy area has been replaced with plants that die during the winter and is now bare dirt that turns into mud and runs everytime it rains. The garbage room is usally overflowing with garbage, our laundry room does not look like it's been cleaned in months. Two days ago there were mice (as in more then one) on "M". One can usually find roaches on "T". There are two older women who are always feeding the "rodents" in the oval and attracting more rodents and artifcially increasing their population by providing them more food then the area can support naturally. My guess the people who complain about dogs are just miserable, lonely people who have nothing better to do with their life, other then complain. There are so many real problems facing our neigborhood, it's a shame that you are waisting your time on dogs.
Dog are the least of any, if at all of any problems that exsist here at Stuytown/PCV!

Anonymous said...

You are worried about dogs LOL.
I would be more concerned about the people who are feeding the rodents. By feeding the rodents they are increasing their population. The more rodents, the more rodent droppings. The rodents carry diseases. And it the winter months mice and rats seek to go indoors for warmth. Stop the feeding of rodents! Those people who feed the rodents are doing fare more to ruin our homes then any dog owner.

Stuy Town Reporter said...

Well, no. Every time I walk outside I see dog refuse and dog owners disobeying the dog rules by allowing their dogs on the grass and garden areas (dog urine kills plant growth). During the summer, I've even seen dogs piss and crap on the Oval grass area right nearby sunbathers. There are many places in the complex that stink because of dog urine and feces. I've heard dogs barking perpetually inside apartments, too, and howling outside at early morning hours. Then there are those dog owners who allow their retractable leashes out a mile long, causing everyone to go around them and their dogs with a very wide berth. So it is a quality of life issue. A serious one.

Dog owners seem impervious to this, because neither they nor their dogs can do wrong. We are ALL suppose to love their Fidos and excuse anything they do that mars the tranquility and beauty (former) of this complex. That's why dog owners are some of the most self-centered, arrogant people around. And as attested to in this thread, these owners willfully disobey the rules. They are right and everyone else is wrong!

Anonymous said...

StyTown Reporter,
Sounds like you have lost your objectivity!
Time for you to get another hobby to fill your free time! LOL

Stuy Town Reporter said...

Another hobby? I'm thinking of writing a dog cook book.

Anonymous said...

mmmmmm Fidoburgers... yum !

Anonymous said...

Well obviously in this case, There's none so blind as those who will not see.

Anonymous said...

Oh, Oh...the Stuyvesant Town Report appears to have "Jumped the Shark."

Not Snoopy said...

Vocalizing your hatred for small animals isn't the solution to this problem.

Stuy Town residents should be required to keep the ST dog tag on their dog's leash / collar so security will know if the dog belongs here or not. If this was enforced by security it would cut down on outsiders using Stuy as a dumping ground.

Residents who see other residents letting their dogs relieve themselves on the grass should be more vocal and kindly remind them it's unacceptable. Same goes for people who see owners not picking up after their dogs.

I don't own a dog but I do love seeing them in the Oval. Encouraging hatred and animosity towards animals is absolutely disgusting. But then again, look at the source.

Stuy Town Reporter said...

No matter how nice people are about informing dog owners to obey the rules, it just won't happen. Since the allowance of dogs, I've seen a progressive worsening of the situation. And it will get worse as time goes on, with more and more dogs added to the mix. Before you'd see dogs on the grass and garden areas periodically, now (even with the added signs) it's a continual situation. Let's admit that dog owners, by and large, just don't give a flying you-know-what about the rules here. (Witness Matt's attitude.) New management will have to really pick up the game and make sure security enforces the dog rules. I doubt that security will be up to the task, however.

So yeah, this place is going to the dogs, literally and figuratively. It's a dog's world out in Stuy Town and PCV.

Anonymous said...

There are many ways to prepare dog. The classic "hot dog" is one example.

Anonymous said...

not snoopy,

Nobody is advocating hatred of any animals. The problem is with the humans, plain and simple.

Stuy Town Reporter said...

It's par for the course that anyone who may want dog owners to obey the rules is considered a "dog hater" by dog owners. This reveals the absolute egoism of dog owners who feel, as has been stated before, they neither they nor their dogs (which are under their care) can do any wrong. So what if their dog pisses and craps on the grass or in the gardens? So what if their dog barks continually in an apartment when the owner is away? So what if a dog owner lets his or her dog off leash or rides out a retractable leash a dozen feet or more? "What's it to you?" "Get a life!" "Oh, you must be a dog hater!"

These folks are simply oblivious to their own narcissism and, yes, disdain for the tenants of this complex who simply want them to obey the dog rules.

Anonymous said...

STR, Not Snoopy isn't a dog owner. You're losing your objectivity and are stereotyping people.

Stuy Town Reporter said...

I'm not addressing "Not Snoopy," just making a general comment.

Anonymous said...

General comments = stereotyping.

Stuy Town Reporter said...

Actually, there's nothing intrinsically wrong with stereotyping if the generalizations are fairly accurate.

Anonymous said...

I won't even touch that one!

Anonymous said...

It is remarkable that with all the issues in STPCV this post by ST Reporter has generated by far the most comments on this site.
It is simple- most dogs are great. It is lousy dog owners that suck and while I believe most dog owners in STPCV try to make sure their dogs behave, the minority who walk their dogs on dangerous ,illegal leashes, who allow their dogs to urinate on vegetation,don't clean up after their dogs etc that are ruimning our community

Stuy Town Reporter said...

I wish it was just a minority of dog owners that do not follow the rules. It's been my experience that while that was true a year or so ago, in recent months very nearly all the dog owners I see are ignoring the rules. Peter Cooper Village is the worst, whenever I walk through it. Almost every single dog I see there is allowed by its owner to be on the grass or garden areas and to urinate in those places.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said on February 9, 2010 11:49 AM

Unfortunately it's more than a "few" owners. There's a general sense of entitlement, and total disregard for the law and their neighbors.

Dogs are remarkable and wonderful animals, but irresponsible ownership will ruin the quality of life here. ST/PCV is a unique property in New York, where all the buildings empty out into the park space, unlike NYC apartment buildings that face the street. Just because there is park space doesn't give dog owners the right to abuse that space. Dogs can be trained to wait until they get to the curb, and dogs are totally controlled by their owners.

Again, it's the bad owners that are the problem, and ST/PCV management should be held accountable, but obviously, because Tishman is so inept at property management, we will have to wait for a real manager to take over and fix the problem.

matt said...

I've considered making more comments in response to your absurd statements, but I've realized that you're so far in the minority that nothing I say will matter. When I walk my dog, no one bothers me! I welcome you to say something. Except so few people actually care. I'll also add that I'm in COMPLETE agreement with you in regards to retractable leashes, picking up after your pet, keeping them contained and so forth.

Clearly we disagree about allowing the animals to urinate in the dirt patches that abound in Stuy Town (we're acting like these are the Botanical Gardens or something...)

I respect and love this community just as much as you do (though I know you fail to see that). Its so frustrating to me how these blogs engender and 'us versus them' mentality. There are many things that need to be addressed to make Stuy Town the best community it can be (for instance, why did I have to have 5 different maintenance workers come to my apartment to fix a simple issue? or why was the washer machine broken for 4 months without a response?), but this issue is a moot point. Clearly we disagree and I won't argue this point further.

Stuy Town Reporter said...

Stuy Town and PCV were, perhaps, never the Botanical Gardens, but they contained wonderful, relaxing grass land and tastefully set plantings and trees. Now this is all gone under the mismanagement of Tishman Speyer. Though having dogs piss and crap on these areas is not the entire problem, or a major part of it (at this point), it is part of the problem. If ever this complex wants to "get back" to the way things were regarding the greenery here, the rule against dogs urinating or crapping on these areas will have to be enforced.

Anonymous said...

Matt,

You don't get it. It is ILLEGAL under the NYC Health Code for your dogs to use create a public nuisance by urinating or defecating on the grass. By LAW, you must take them to the curb.

Anonymous said...

BINGO

Anonymous said...

The Dogs have to go under the new management, Period.

Anonymous said...

As a 10-year-old child, I was attacked by a large dog whose owners had let him off the leash in the street in the California suburb where I lived. The dog, a Dalmatian, bit me several times through my clothes and knocked me down flat on the pavement twice before the owners could get him off me. This was without a doubt the most terrifying experience of my life, and at age 62 I still have occasional nightmares about being attacked by dogs and other animals.

What's more, a few days after 9/11, a German shepherd whose owners had him on a very long leash jumped up on me and barked in my face as I was crossing First Avenue and 20th Street. Fortunately, his owners were able to control him, and he didn't bite me or knock me down, but somehow my fear of dogs became associated in my mind with the trauma of 9/11, and dogs figured in my 9/11 nightmares for months afterwards and still appear in them from time to time. Small dogs don't bother me at all (I come from a family of dachshund lovers), but large and medium-sized dogs terrify me, especially when they're off the leash.

When I moved to Stuy Town 17 years ago, the fact that it was a dog-free community was a tremendous selling point for me. So when TS decided to allow dogs in order to attract more market-rate tenants, I was quite upset but of course had no recourse.

In my building, some of the spoiled young professionals think that they're entitled to have their dogs off the leash in the hallways and elevators. But they're not the worst offenders. There's a woman who frequently walks her Dalmatian (!) in Stuy Town and Peter Cooper Village, more often than not off the leash. I've screamed at her a few times (I'm afraid I'm so unhinged when I see a Dalmatian off the leash that I can't do anything except scream), but she always looks at me with total scorn and never puts the leash on her dog. In my book, she belongs in the ninth circle of Dante's Inferno, along with her enablers, Jerry and Robby Speyer.

matt said...

Gosh things are just so tough for me today! All this snow has made it impossible to differentiate between grass and sidewalk! You guys should all come out and draw lines in the snow for me to know where to bring my dog...

So this law you bring up about dogs and 'public nuisance'? Here it is:

a) A person who owns, possesses or controls a dog, cat or other animal shall not permit the animal to commit a nuisance on a sidewalk of any public place, on a floor, wall, stairway or roof of any public or private premises used in common by the public, or on a fence, wall or stairway of a building abutting on a public place.

Hmm...so I guess I'm not supposed to let my dog urinate on the sidewalk...or a fence...or a stairway...So I guess what you all suggest is for me to walk the dog along First Avenue as the taxis whiz past? This law is so unenforced and unrecognized its silly. It also goes against your argument as it criminalizes urinating on the very space you promote (the sidewalk). This goes beyond Stuyvesant Town; this is a law that is unenforced throughout the city. (Isn't Stuy Town private land?) Gosh I guess everyone should just eat their dogs since there's no where they're allowed to go to the bathroom...

The dogs aren't going anywhere. If the new management didn't allow dogs they'd be losing a sizable number of their tenants, and I doubt that would occur.

Anonymous said...

Children have a much larger carbon footprint than dogs and definitely contribute to other societal probelms such as over-population. Children also tend to be very messy and are much louder than the dogs. Are you going to next suggest that we get rid of all the kids in stuy town and PCV? Or that the management rent only to sterile couples? You are upset and disappointed in bad pet owners, don't blame the dogs themselves and don't blame the responsible owners. That's like blaming a 3 year old for yelling in a restaurant instead of blaming the parents for not teaching their child manners. I hate retractible leashes, as do most dog trainers. They suck all around. And not picking up after a dog makes all dog owners look bad. So aim your article at negligent dog owners, not at those that are very responsible. And I expect to see your next article on the topic of how loud and messy kids are because you clearly have a problem with little happy loving beings.

Anonymous said...

We need for Security to have the authority (and the motivation) to hand out tickets to dog owners who break the rules. When it starts hitting them in the pocket book, maybe they'll start to take notice of the rules.

Stuy Town Reporter said...

Kids are great. Humans first. Animals afterward.

Anonymous said...

Matt,

Your ignorance and sociopathic behavior is astonishing. Part of being a responsible citizen is obeying the law no matter what the chance of enforcement. Your arguments are pathetic and without basis. Dogs are supposed to be curbed, that means taken into the street next to the curb so that street cleaning men or machines can clean up the residue. NYC Sanitation has sweeper trucks that clean the curbs, I'm sure you've seen them, they are the reason for Alternate Side Parking".

I sincerely hope you don't try to use such an ignorant line of reasoning should you appear before any court.

Anonymous said...

There appears to be a lot of ignorance expressed here on this topic. Much of it by the "Reporter." One would hope that he would research his story first but that seems to be too much to ask for these days. Here's the NYC LAW:



§ 1310. Removal of canine wastes in cities with a population of four
hundred thousand or more persons and in the cities of Yonkers and
Albany. Notwithstanding any contrary provision of law, rule or
regulation, in cities with a population of four hundred thousand or more
persons and in the cities of Yonkers and Albany, it shall be the duty of
each dog owner or person having possession, custody or control of a dog
to remove any feces left by his dog on any sidewalk, gutter, street or
other public area. Any violation of this section shall constitute a
violation punishable by a fine or a civil penalty of not more than one
hundred dollars. For the purposes of enforcing the provisions of this
section, appearance tickets may be issued by sanitation officers, dog
enumerators, or wardens and by any persons authorized to issue tickets
for parking violations. Notwithstanding any other provision of law to
the contrary, in the city of New York, such appearance tickets may be
returnable to the environmental control board which shall have the power
to impose the civil penalties herein provided. The provisions of this
section shall not apply to a guide dog, hearing dog or service dog
accompanying any person with a disability, as defined in subdivision
twenty-one of section two hundred ninety-two of the executive law.

Last modified: August 13, 2006

http://law.onecle.com/new-york/public-health/PBH01310_1310.html

Nothing about 'curbs.' Just the requirement that the waste be removed by the owner.

Anonymous said...

My goodness, talk about ignorance. You're right, there is nothing about "curb" in the leash law. The concept of "curb" comes from the The animal nuisance law (167;161.03) that is quoted in the thread.

The "nuisance" referred to is animal waste on the sidewalks. But nice try quoting only one of the statutes.

Do you seriously think this discussion begins in this forum ? It's been LAW in NYC for many decades. Argue it with a judge if you don't believe me, I don't care.

Stuy Town Reporter said...

You don't read well, do you? Nothing in your post contradicts my main page post nor any of my statements here.

I do know about the city rules concerning dogs and the dog rules in Stuy Town and PCV. Dog are NOT allowed on the grass and garden areas here. Period. I never mentioned anything about curbing a dog.

You may wish to check this old post out to show you what I do know:

http://stuytownreport.blogspot.com/search?q=curb

Stuy Town Reporter said...

--The "nuisance" referred to is animal waste on the sidewalks.--

This is true (or has been interpreted as such), but according to Security, they take the stance that a dog can crap anyplace in Stuy Town/PCV, except in areas off limits to dogs (like the grass and garden areas). So they will not even stop a dog from taking a dump right in front of the Security booth, as long as the owner picks up the crap. According to that old post I linked to, the Security Chief didn't know about the illegal nature of a retractable leash beyond the accepted footage, so these guys are not that bright on the law anyway.

Anonymous said...

The leash law has nothing do do with cleaning up after your animal. It has do do with properly restraining and controlling animals so that they do not cause bodily harm.

You guys can spout all you want but the law is not on your side. Dog owners MUST clean up after their animals but that doesn't mean they can't let them shit on the sidewalk.

Get over it.

Trust me. The dogs don't like you, either!

Stuy Town Reporter said...

The law in this complex is on our side regarding dogs on the grass or garden areas. The very law that many narcissistic dog owners flagrantly disobey. Too bad security is too incompetent to put the owners of these dogs into the dog house!

Anonymous said...

Please, 'report.'

It's not a law.

That's a big error on your part.

Seems like it's just you and me now. Everyone else is out walking their dogs...

Stuy Town Reporter said...

Law as in "rule."

Anonymous said...

OK. Now I understand.

Kind of like 'dog' as in 'cat'...

Anonymous said...

If a person left urine or feces on a sidewalk or in a garden, the dog-entitled posters here would be revolted (at least, I hope they would be). But when it's a puddle of dog urine in one's path or a steaming pile or smear from a dog, it's OK.

Stuy Town Reporter said...

"Kind of like 'dog' as in 'cat'..."

No, as in the dog ate the cat or the dog ate my homework.

Stuy Town Reporter said...

BTW, I forgot to mention dog turds in the stairwells, as one of the problems in this complex.

"I couldn't get my poor baby outside in time!"

Also, notice how many twenty-something "ladies" do not carry any doggie bags with them when they take out their dogs on M levels for a "walk." They let the dog take a crap and piss wherever the dog pleases and never pick up the crap. After all, they are such lovely young ladies who just don't do those kind of things.

Anonymous said...

Oops. I must be on the wrong blog.

This stuff doesn't seem to be happening North of 20th Street.

I feel your pain, tho...

Stuy Town Reporter said...

Au contraire. It happens even more in PCV!

Anonymous said...

Returning the grounds of these properties to some level of civility will be one of my primary complaints to Rose Associates when they assume stewardship. They won't be following the same politics of appeasement that Tishman forced themselves into because they were so desperate for rent money.

Anonymous said...

I have another reason not to have mutts in Stuy Town: Clumps of dog hair in the washers. Disgusting!

Anonymous said...

wow U R good! you can tell the difference between dog hair, people hair, and lint.. you missed your calling.. My guess is that you are over 65 years old, living alone, no life, and no friends one foot in the grave and the other foot on an Banana peel. You are someone who could really benefit from getting a dog. A dog who would love you despite of your miserable self..

Anonymous said...

EAT THE DOG ALREADY. let's move on to another topic

Anonymous said...

This is the best thread ever. Brilliant. Let's all wear "Eat the Dog" T-shirts. Says it all about Stuy Town.

Anonymous said...

Hey, we can use this graphic for the "T"

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/3663/shootthisdogcopy.jpg

New dog owner, 21 year resident said...

I have lived here for 21 years, and became a dog-owner about 6 weeks ago. I have met many great people (market rate and rent-stabilized alike) who own dogs and who love ST/PCV and are as concerned about public health and keeping the property clean and dog-waste-free as anyone else. I also meet many senior neighbors and parents with small children who get joy from meeting my puppy.

A few things I've noticed: (1) I am struck by the number of non-ST/PCV residents I meet who walk their dogs here, especially in the evenings. I believe this problem is easy for Security to take care of. Dogs are required to wear a ST/PCV tag on their collar; if a tag is not visible Security can ask to see a key card. If there were security guards patrolling the entrances to First Avenue Loop roads and 14th Street Loop roads it would deter non-residents from entering. (2) In addition to enforcing all posted dog rules, ST/PCV should designate specific trash receptables that are for disposing bagged dog waste; no dog waste should be placed in trash receptables next to seating areas.

(3) Dog owners should speak with soft voices on early morning and late night walks. I am amazed at how many people gather with a group of playful pups with loud voices gabbing away standing right outside someone else's window "barking" commands to their dogs, etc.

Anonymous said...

Here's the obituary of the woman who helped bring about the pooper-scooper law. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/20/nyregion/20lee.html?ref=obituaries

Stuy Town Reporter said...

A great woman!

Stuy Town Reporter said...

BTW, yesterday morning when I went outside I came across, in the space of--oh, I'd say ten minutes--the following:

1 person who let her dog in the Oval garden area the entire time I saw her.

1 person who let her dog in the grass area.

2 people with their retractable leashes out long, way beyond the legal limit.

1 person who did not have her dog leashed.

Only one 1 person with a dog who was following all the regulations.

Oh, and two areas on the walkways with significant dog feces and smears.

A typical ten minutes in Stuy Town!

Anonymous said...

"A typical ten minutes in Stuy Town!"
Should be titled
"A typical ten minutes in my nothing to live for life"

So very sad, that you chose to spend your dwindling time watching/documenting what other people do with their time. You say and I quote;
"Only one 1 person with a dog who was following all the regulations."
So not only do you spy on and document who is not following "regulations" as you interupt them, you are now keeping a "who is good and who is naughty" list. What a very exciting life you must have. Very sad indeed.
People and their dogs will be here long after you are gone. I bet you are one of the orinal tenants who would call security when they saw children playing on the grass.

Stuy Town Reporter said...

Senior citizen hater!

Actually, if you just open your eyes when you walk through Stuyvesant Town or Peter Cooper Village, you can't but help to see what I see. No spying or snooping involved. It's easy! Try it! (And you should really open your eyes these days to make sure you don't step into Fido's deposits.)

Anonymous said...

I knew it! LOL
No anything but a "Senior citizen hater!". Having two elderly parents myself..
Nope, thank god my parents are both in their late 70's. Full of life.. they have friends and have the smarts to do some good instead of trying to find ways to antagonize others. Both my parents volunteer at a local school and help tutor little kids who have trouble with reading. Time is way too precious to them to worry about dog poop. But I guess, we all have our calling.. don’t we? Your's is just a different path, littered with poop.

Anonymous said...

I find it fascinating that the typical dog nut response to any behavioral correction is to launch an attack to deflect the just criticism.

It happens time after time, both on these boards, and in the streets. I wonder what kind of horrible shame these people feel for allowing their animals to besmirch the landscape that they can't be criticized for their anti-social behavior ?

So interesting. You know this behavior would never be tolerated in our suburban neighborhoods where pride of ownership trumps individual narcissism.

Anonymous said...

The dogs seem to be the best tenants in the complex. I enjoy meeting them more than most of my neighbors.

STR has obviously never crossed 20th street because the fecal nightmare he portrays only exists in his mind.

Anonymous said...

Like STR, I fear that the dog situation will get worse. Almost every dog owner I meet is either obnoxious or spaced out. They just don't seem to get it.

Anonymous said...

It is bad and getting worse by the day. The paths in ST are dotted with dog feces, and I'm not looking for it, but I'm looking down so I don't step in it ! There were 3 piles in front of my building in the last 2 days alone.

Management needs to address this issue NOW !

Stuy Town Reporter said...

Of course, nighttime is particularly treacherous in regards to dog crap and smears on the ground. Almost impossible to tell with the poor lighting out there what one is stepping on or not.