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At this point, Management has two priorities: 1) Making sure money is made, hence upgrading and filling up apartments is their goal. "Amenities" are important in selling the place, though few residents use them. 2) If someone needs medical attention, Public Safety will be there, if alerted.

Quality of life issues are not that important, however. They tend to be ignored, despite "the rules." So you will see a lot that isn't taken care of properly, and complaints will be met with a creative excuse and a smile.

"Peace and quiet" must be a cruel joke, though this property is sold that way. There can be no peace and quiet as ALL apartments must be upgraded, which includes the installation of an AC unit below the window. Aside from the continual construction about the neighborhood, there is a new and noisy subway extension being built along East 14 st and the shut down of the L line. "Choosing" to live in NYC, now the newest mantra, is a fabrication when the talk is of ST and PCV, which was traditionally quiet, with no construction noise.

Though money was always important, it is now more important than ever. Money rules many things, as you will find.

Saturday, September 29, 2012

Police Called into Stuy Town

We're hearing reports of a female being badly beaten last night in front of 447 East 14th St. An ambulance had to be called. There also appears to have been a mugging that same night at the perimeter of Stuy Town on 17th St and 1st Ave. I myself saw two police vehicles at Oval Cafe this morning, as well as Public Safety. The police were there for an hour at least and left after questioning a young female, who seemed to be pointing in the direction of 1st Ave, possibly a witness to someone fleeing the area.

Hopefully fuller details will emerge soon in Town & Village.

UPDATE 10/5:

MOVE ALONG, NOTHING TO SEE HERE....

Well, Town & Village's "Police Watch" did report that someone at Papaya Dog was grabbed and had his shirt torn, and that a passenger in a taxi at 1st Ave and 22nd St didn't pay his $6 fare, but nothing on the incident that happened in Stuy Town last week. Seems the 13th Precinct is being close-lipped about what occurred, even though an ambulance was called and the investigation into what happened continued in the morning with TWO cop cars turning up near Oval Cafe to interview a witness, among other things....

85 comments:

Anonymous said...

I wonder where Public Security was? Maybe they found something to eat or a car to sleep in close by.


The head of PS here needs to be fired. They harass tenants every chance they get and when a real crime happens they are never anywhere to be found.

They sure do have lots of pads to take down notes with sarcastic attitudes to boot though. Good job Public Security. Who was on duty while someone was getting attacked in the Oval?

Stuy Town Reporter said...

Well, we do have an award-winning security system in place. Problem is, that a study showed that such camera monitors don't really stop a crime in progress. There SHOULD be fuzzy photos of the perpetrator, however.

But let's hear more of what happened.

Anonymous said...

Nothing can beat boots on the ground. Those cameras and monitors are just an expensive cop out (no pun intended). Instead of riding around (or sitting around) in their vehicles and sitting watching whatever it is they watch (because it sure as hell aint us, unless you're a female student in a micro bikini) they should be patrolling the property. They used to ride in little 3-wheeled things (don't know what they're called) and they could get around pretty darn fast and go after any perp and get to the scene of an incident in very few minutes. Now they ride/sit in SUVs and do f**ck all.

Anonymous said...

Residonts, do not fear!
The Keystone Cops are always here...

Anonymous said...

Public Safety is a joke.

They are hired based on their looks, they rarely catch a crime IN progress, and when they supply after-the-fact photos, they say the crime took place in Gramercy. That's how an ENORMOUS man wielding an ICE PICK in Stuy Town was able to do so.

It wasn't until LUX posted about the crimes happening HERE and not Gramercy that the media swarmed the property and Public Safety was forced to put down their smart phones and do their job. Even then, it was the NYPD who caught him.

Public Safety is ineffective. Let's see how well the cameras worked this time around now that the property is drowning in jungle foliage.

Stuy Town Reporter said...

>>They are hired based on their looks<<

Maybe if the look they're going for is Tubby the Tuba.

Anonymous said...

"Maybe if the look they're going for is Tubby the Tuba."

exactly right STR, what a bizarre comment that was: their looks? Really?

Stuy Town Reporter said...

Well, there is ONE guy. Mr. Muscles.

Anonymous said...

I don't think that denigrating PS, especially about their looks, serves any usefull purpose. It is very childish.

Anonymous said...

Here's another way PS doesn't function. There are tenants in my building who have taken to using the hallway as a playground for their children (soccer lessons, anyone?) for more than an hour. On more than one occasion PS has been notified. One time they didn't bother to show up to investigate the noise complaint. The next time they showed up, but the family had already gone back inside. Because the officer had not personally seen the activity, he said he could not ring the tenants' doorbell to do anything about the situation. The moral of this is call PS the instant there's a problem so that by some slight chance they'll actually show up.

This reminds me of the response I got from the office (after they consulted with the legal dept.) after I reported that a young woman in the building said she had bed bugs. I asked if she had made a report and was told no. The legal dept. then advised Maintenance that they couldn't do anything unless the tenant in question complained. Isn't this what's called leading from behind (no political allusion intended)?

Hippo said...

Nine dollars an hour without benefits ain't gonna get you Sherlock Holmes...more like Inspector Clouseau?!

Anonymous said...

The leasing office people are hired for their looks, not Officer Facebook, Officer Marlboro, and Officer Ham Bone.

Anonymous said...

"The leasing office people are hired for their looks, not Officer Facebook, Officer Marlboro, and Officer Ham Bone."

officer marlboro i do know, he's a sargeant and must have iron lungs.

September 30, 2012 9:54 PM

Anonymous said...

If you see something you think is wrong going on here, take out your smartphone, if you have one, and take pictures. That's what I do. Then you have all the proof you need. Of course, the people you are photographing might object or even get aggressive with you (in which case I tell them that if they weren't doing something wrong I wouldn't be taking pictures of them! and that I am calling Security) - so be careful - but too bad for them if they are being bad neighbors. Maybe it will even give them pause about their behavior in the future. Though given the inconsiderate morons who now live here by the hundreds, perhaps thousands, it might not. At least with pictures, you can hold Management's feet to the fire.

Anonymous said...


I don't care how they are hired...but it would be nice to see them on-foot outside the Duncan Donuts on 1st Ave.

The really do have the DD locked down. No attacks are going to happen in there! lol

They need to spend less time harassing tenants and more time actually patrolling. Someone needs to fire the head of security and replace him with someone who actually does the job.

Those agents ogling scantily clad women in the Oval need to be fired as well...simply as a show of good faith. They have the tapes, let someone review them and heads should roll.

Anonymous said...

Nine dollars an hour without benefits ain't gonna get you Sherlock Holmes...more like Inspector Clouseau?!
-----

You are mistaken about their payment. The pay scale climbs rapidly.

Anonymous said...

I know this is totally off topic but are people having trouble with the transition to Quickpark?

These people don't call back, and
their billing makes no sense. I signed up to charge my credit card but still received a bill demanding payment in 5 days.

Their bill has no contact number and when you call Quickpark directly, you can't reach anyone!

Anonymous said...

"I know this is totally off topic but are people having trouble with the transition to Quickpark?"

I have had no problems with them. Of course, as soon as I got the notice of their arrival, I moved my car to a different garage. Now I have no trouble and I'm paying half the price.

The last straw was the fact that I would have to get yet another NYC parking exemption because of the ownership change.

BTW, after I left they called me and offered to match the price at my new digs. I declined their offer but the lesson is that they are willing to negotiate.

Nota bene.

Anonymous said...

The property is so big that PS can not be in every place at once. Things happen everywhere. I know for sure that there are PS officers that work their assess off and have caught criminals in the act and have been recognized for their good deeds.

Anonymous said...

Any update on what happened concerning the girl who was assaulted?

Anonymous said...

"The property is so big that PS can not be in every place at once."

Then they are obviously understaffed and underqualified for the job at hand.

Car 54 WTF are you? Probably at DD...

Anonymous said...

They're as good at catching criminals as they are at catching pitt bulls, ice pick stabbers, senior citizen muggers, teens painting swastikas on the sidewalks, bikes hitting people, iPhone snatchers, men mugging women at 447, rapists in the oval. They're GRRRRREEEAAT!!!

Anonymous said...

Instead of general rants against public safety, I would rather see some actual information about what happened? Did anyone find out?

Stuy Town Reporter said...

I think we have to wait until T&V comes out this week.

Anonymous said...

I would guess that Sabina Mallot of T&V has looked into it. Why not contact her?

Sabina Mallot (212) 777-6611 editor@townvillage.net

Sabina, if you are reading the blog, why not let us know if you are looking into this situation?

Anonymous said...

The rants against PS are from those of us who feel there should be some accountability for those we pay to "protect" us.

They are clearly not doing a good job and yet they comfortably hide behind some wall of technology pretending to make the area secure.

Just having cameras doesn't mean they can sit in their cars all day. How about some respect for the people paying big-rent here and would like to feel their family members can walk through the Oval after 10pm without possibly being raped or beaten up?

Anonymous said...

Don't you think if we knew something we'd say something???

Anonymous said...

Think about whaat this property would actually be like without them. It would definately be not as safe as it is now.I know that you guys do not agree with. I think they (especially the midnight tour) does a really good job.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 5:42 said: "Think about whaat this property would actually be like without them. It would definately be not as safe as it is now.I know that you guys do not agree with. I think they (especially the midnight tour) does a really good job."

Sorry, I have to say it--anyone who thinks they're doing a good job hasn't been living here long enough. Two examples (one I've already written about):
1. Security gets a report of a disturbance and abuse of the hallway. By the time they arrive, all is quiet, and they refuse to ring the offending tenant's doorbell because they didn't observe the bad behavior. Pre-TS: Tenant would have been told to stop abusing the hallway, probably in a letter that made it clear such behavior wouldn't be tolerated.

2. As a younger adult, I decided to try something I used to do as a kid--run the broad steps on the Ave. A side of the 14th St. loop one at a time. As I was running down, a Security officer on foot stopped to ask if I was OK and make sure I wasn't running away from a dangerous situation. I cannot imagine that happening today.

Anonymous said...

Public Safety/Security (whatever) do the best they can with what they've got. Unfortunately, our interim caretaker, substitute landlord (whatever) doesn't make it easy for them because they want to create the illusion that there is no crime in STPCV. In the pre-Benmoshe days of MetLife if there was any crime committed on the property we had notices in all the elevators and lobbies and we felt duly warned and were on our guard. Since Benmoshe , Tishman Speyer and the rest of the losers (including Rose) and the rest of the losers, those who we pay our rent to would rather give the illusion that nothing bad ever happens here. They want the students, suburban and flyover state yuppies to come here thinking this is as safe as Flyblow, Wiskenohioma. It's all about MONEY, folks. Human life is not important.

Anonymous said...

I'm pretty sure notices with photos were posted of the guy with the knife.

Anonymous said...

i believe the incident was a case of domestic abuse. there was some info from a NJ paper about the suspect.

Anonymous said...


What we are asking for here is to USE our resources (which we paid for) adequately.

Regardless of their hourly wage, it is NOT ok for them to sit in their cars all day or to dunk donuts watching cameras.

Taket these same guys and make them check in at different points at different times each night and the crime feel it. No criminal likes the idea of randomly running into a security guard on foot...seeing a guy in the doll house at the entrance of a 16 acre property is not going to scare too many guys.

It has been obvious to me that the head of P.S. needs to be replaced by someone who understands SOMETHING about combating crime. Limited money is no excuse...like any police department is every granted unlimited funds? No...they all work with what they got, which I suspect is not so bad at PCVST.

Anonymous said...

In 250 1st Ave. there are no pictures or notices about the assault.

Anonymous said...

All this unfounded bashing of Security serves no purpose. Present some factual evidence, and then present it to management. Protecting the property is a 24/7/365 job, and there is a LOT more that goes on here than what meets the eye. Stereotypical griping about doughnuts just serves to diminish the credibility of your (very vague) complaints. And just as a postscript, IMHO, the issues with Security are just about last on the list of problems facing tenants of ST/PCV, maybe one place higher than the cabbages.

Anonymous said...

In the 10/4/2012 T&V, no mention of either the 447 East 14th nor the First Ave and 17th Street incidents in any section of the paper including the Police Watch section. The front page did have a story re the gang related shooting at the NYCHA Campos Plaza project. There is a front page story in the 10/3-10/9 Village Voice about the increase in NYC crime, "While Bloomberg brags about his record, New York's crime rate is on the rise"
http://www.villagevoice.com/2012-10-03/news/new-york-crime-rate-rising/

Anonymous said...

I don't think I am going to renew my subscription to T&V because it doesn't seem to focus on our community as much as I think it should. No mention of crimes committed here, but we get to hear about Campos Plaza, Gramercy Park, etc. I don't give a FF about what goes on in those places. I want to know what goes on here!

Stuy Town Reporter said...

To be fair, T&V is supposed to cover Waterside, Gramercy Park, Union Square, East Midtown Plaza and Kips Bay, according to its own promo.

Anonymous said...

I wonder what the quid pro quo is for the 13th Pct? The corruption in this city is like a cancer.

Anonymous said...

Once again, paranoia is much more fun than facts. PCVST is a very safe place. And you are NOT paying for anything. Half of you are paying a rent that does not cover the basic costs. Now THAT is an inconvenient fact.....

Anonymous said...

If I didn't see the P.S. guys in DD just about every day (and if I didn't observe them, with my own eyes, having one of those King-Kong size coffees in their car for about 40 minutes straight when I was waiting on 20th Street...well I would not rant.

But, hearing there are crimes, even violent ones, at Stuytown while these guys congregate ineffectively in their cars...well, seems like a few rants are deserved.

Honestly, I'm hoping that when the new owner comes in, or when they go condo...we have some more control and can let these ineffective ill-trained guys go. When you charge thousands per month for rent, you need to be held to a higher standard than these lame P.S. guys.

BTW, speaking of vague, I'd like to see proof of even one crime solved by these guys in the last year. So far as I can tell, they simply sit in their cars and tell the college kids to stay out of the fountain about twice per day. (OK, no one should be in the fountain, but we don't need 12 guys to accomplish this.)


BTW, security, how about coming clean about exactly what happened the other night at the Oval? Don't we have a right to know what dangers we face when P.S. doesn't come through.

Anyone sticking up for these lame rent-a-cops probably does NOT live here.

Stuy Town Reporter said...

>>And you are NOT paying for anything. Half of you are paying a rent that does not cover the basic costs. Now THAT is an inconvenient fact.....<<

Of course there was a time when the rents here from apartments that were all genuinely rent-stabilized, and low, did pay for everything. This was before Tishman-Speyer and the sale, which eventually, because of a default, placed billions of dollars of debt onto the backs of the tenants here (and not on the back of Tishman-Speyer). And then there's the additional financial burden of putting in plantings, tearing them out, putting new ones in, etc. And the failed amenity programs, "events," etc.

Anonymous said...

The notion that residents paying lower rents are failing to cover the cost of the Complex is a canard. Pure and simple.

Operating costs are well-covered by the current rent roll. What is not covered is the interest on the tremendous debt issued to purchase the property. Even after half of the investors in this property were wiped out, the senior note holders are still not covering their nut.

This isn't the fault of residents paying lower rents. This is the direct result of an investment gone bad. One that was fatally flawed from the outset.

The blame for any shortfall sits squarely on the shoulders of the institutions that made those investments. They are accountable to their constituents for the losses they accumulated and for the clear lack of judgement they exhibited in deploying their assets.

This is their problem, not ours. Too bad for them.

Anonymous said...

My rent pays for much less than it used to because the costs of running this place have been driven up by blood sucking charlatans such as Tishman Speyer who raped it and left it for dead. At the same time, iam getting much less for what I pay because the QOL has gone down the toilet. I now have no laundry facilities to speak of (MacGrayshould be out of business for health violations); I have to live surrounded by loud, dirty students and hotel/hostel flop houses. I think my rent should be reduced commensurately.

Anonymous said...

@October 6, 2012 9:39 AM

Absolutely correct.

And to October 6, 2012 5:02 AM, who says;

"Anyone sticking up for these lame rent-a-cops probably does NOT live here."

What kind of asinine remark is that ? If someone didn't live here, how could they know the workings of the Security department ? They're not obligated to reveal the inner workings of their department to you. If you have a beef, go to the landlord, they employ them.

Anonymous said...

"There's always something happening in Stuy Town!"

Anonymous said...

Anonymous - @October 6, 2012 9:39 AM

AGREED, AGREED, AGREED. Unfortunately, though, they're taking their bad investment out on the tenants.

The morons in charge - yes, that means YOU, Andrew MacArthur, our overlord at CW Capital - don't seem to have a clue that people would rent here even without all the stupid activities they're pouring bags of money into.

You know what people REALLY want, Andy? THEY WANT CLEAN, QUIET, SAFE AND SECURE BUILDINGS WITH LAUNDRY ROOMS THAT DON'T HAVE WASHING MACHINES SPEWING BUBONIC PLAGUE. PERIOD. GOT IT?

Anonymous said...

Fact #1: the operating expenses are paid by the roughly 50% of the tenants who are paying market rate. If the place were as bad as the other 50% claim, the market-rate people would all move out. This is just basic common sense. Fact #2: the 50% who are paying substantially less than market rate should honestly recognize that many other things have changed since the 1950's in addition to the PCVST changes. Should the world stand still for decades? Fact #3: if it is truly so horrible to live here, why would any self-respecting human being stay? .....just for the extremely low rent? Are you that lacking in integrity? Just a rent whore who would put up with the supposedly slum-like conditions? WHAT ARE YOU ACTUALLY SAYING ABOUT YOURSELF? Think about it.

Stuy Town Reporter said...

Hmm, here are some additional facts.... Fact: No one is talking about the 1950s in regard to the rent rolls maintaining the property. Try the 1960s, the 1970s, the 1980s, etc. This place desperately needed higher paying renters once Tishman-Speyer bought the complex at a hugely inflated price. Fact: I, and others, have been contacted by "market-rate" renters who can't afford this place when their renewal lease does come up, with a higher rent, and they have to, and do, leave. Fact: This place is being funded in significant part by the illegal cohabitation of several students to one apartment. Fact: Very few people state that this place is slum-like, and if they do, it's to make a point.

Lo Rhent said...

You listen up, round eye. Before you start with facts, maybe you go back to scool first!

Everybody that anybody here for Lo Rhent. The rest of you just passing through.

Don't let the crosstown bus hit you in the @ss on the way out!

Anonymous said...

"What kind of asinine remark is that ? If someone didn't live here, how could they know the workings of the Security department ?"

They could WORK for Public Security, genius.


If you need us to hold your hand and walk you through the complaints one-by-one we will.

Anonymous said...

Fact #3: if it is truly so horrible to live here, why would any self-respecting human being stay?
----

As a 12 year market rate tenant, the only reason I stay now is the hope of going condo and having a say in shaping this place up.

If another buyer emerges, I will vacate immediately or if this seems to be stalled infinitely, I will leave at the end of my 2 year lease.


If i were paying the stabilized lease, I might not be as irate about the slipping conditions...but at the bloated full market rate, I have started to shop around lately and see I can do better.

Now it is up to the TA to push for a sale or lock in for what seems to be a losing battle.

Anonymous said...

“Fact” – MetLife had to sell because they could not continue to operate this place without collecting higher rents. You should be angry with MetLife, not Tishman who purchased the property. You are correct - Very few people state that this place is slum-like - but the few who do state is CONSTANTLY. Have the ten or less constant complainers on this blog ever lived anywhere else? You want a quality of living which cost 200% more than the rent you are paying. You cannot get a “gated community” quality of living while paying a rent stabilized rent. Do you have any idea of what you get for your money in Manhattan? There are many people in this world who are happy with half of what you have. Consider looking at things from a different perspective.

Anonymous said...

"They could WORK for Public Security, genius."

Not possible. No one actually works there.

Another Kodak moment for PS this week: one of them came by to harass the porter for leaving the back door open. Must have sent a signal that woke up one of the guys pretending to watch the TV screens at the Bat Cave!

This porter works his butt off. He's hauling three bags of trash at once out the back door, taking them to the curb. He leaves the back door open long enough to get the trash out and come back for more.

The guard told him he should close the door behind him each time he leaves. Give me a break!

Where was that guard when that lady got her head bashed in two weeks ago? Perhaps monitoring the crust to bread ratio for the PBJs at the Kubrik Cafe...

Stuy Town Reporter said...

How much pressure does a debt of 3 billion plus put into needing to increase rents?

Anonymous said...

In my building the recycling bins could not be more clearly marked if they had neon signs over them. However, that doesn't stop the slobs who live here from throwing their garbage on the floor of the recycling area. I guess they forget that Mom is back in whatever flyover state they come from and is not going to pick up after them. The porters are made to empty the recycling bins several times a day and clean up the garbage that the slobs throw on the floor. I continue to put ALL my garbage down the chute. Don't see any point in doing otherwise.

Anonymous said...

"There's always something happening to residents in Stuy Town!"

Anonymous said...

Met Life didn't sell because they needed to collect higher rents, they sold because the STOCKHOLDERS wanted a better return on their investment. When Met Life was a mutual company it did not have pressure to create large profits. When they went public (the beginning of the Benmosche years) they no longer wanted to provide for the veterans that they built the development for. See, they had no historical perspective, much like the newer tenants who live here and have no conception of what the place was like, and totally lack respect for those that have lived here longer than they have. You can be envious or oblivious all you like, but those long time tenants aren't going anywhere.

Anonymous said...

Another thing that did not make the Police Watch (not that I would expect it to) was the arrest of Ramon, the Mayor of 14th Street, last week. The manager of the eatery on the corner of 14th and First (Crusty Crappy, or something like that) had him hauled away in a cop car for asking people for money outside the joint. This guy (who clearly has a learning disability, but can be a bit pesty) has been hitting up people for a dollar on that block for well over 30 years. He is harmless. I've noticed that none of the Arab stores that he regularly haunts has ever been mean to him. They have been outstandingly tolerant. Poor Ole Ramon, has a desk appearance next week and is scared he's going to jail. I don't think they will throw the Mayor of 14th Street into the Slammer! I sincerely hope not!

Anonymous said...

You can be envious or oblivious all you like, but those long time tenants aren't going anywhere.>>

You got that right!!! My annoying, inconsiderate neighbors will come and go; I will still be here until it's box time! (Unless, of course, I hit the Lottery, in which case I'll be dancing out in style!)

Anonymous said...

Shame on the cops for giving Ramon a DAT. Shows a certain lack f judgment and compassion on their part. Surely they have better things to do.

Maybe T&V will put it in to fill up the crime blotter instead of reporting the serious crimes in ST.

And shame on Hot and Crusty. Time to start looking for violations there.

Anonymous said...

Can someone please clarify what you guys are arguing about?

Anonymous said...

Maybe the cops had no choice if the manager of the cafe had made a complaint. I doubt anything will happen to Ramon. He certainly doesn't have money to pay a fine! I wonder if he has anyone looking out for him? I don't think he is homeless, though he did tell me once that he is locked out of his place all day. I wish the cops would remove that "crusty" who sits by the bus stop . He looks able bodied enough to work. I saw him hassling Ramon recently; I think because he saw Ramon as competition for people going into the candy store. The Yemini guys who own that store are, indeed, very patient with Ramon, as we're the guys who ran Stuyvesant Town Supermarket that burnt down. I really miss that place!

Anonymous said...

When can we expect to get some heat in this dump? January?

Anonymous said...

It's so cold in my apartment I can make my own ice cream. Watch out Oval Cafe!

Anonymous said...

"You want a quality of living which cost 200% more than the rent you are paying. You cannot get a “gated community” quality of living while paying a rent stabilized rent"

Actually, long before you moved here, we DID get that quality of living on a stabilized rent. You'll never understand because you never experienced the way things were.

Anonymous said...

No heat, and no help from management regarding the lack of carpeting on the floor of the new student neighbors, and the constant noise coming from their place all night long. Seems like only one lone guy manning the phones in the management office who directs all noise complaints to Security. Security told me to call management.

Yeah, "seamless transition."

Anonymous said...

Dear STR,
Unfortunately you and your readers are ignorant to the functions of the DPS. First of all none of your ramblings (facts) are correct. You know nothing of which you comment. DPS evidence for instance closed the case and another open case in the 9th Pct for the NYPD by the same perp. It is not the ungrateful comments made evey day, but the little old lady who says she feels safe that keep DPS laying their lives on the line, every day, for everyone. Reading the posted comments truly emphasize most of your resident and other commentators have no idea that DPS Officers job is no different than a Housing P.O. job.
All DPS Officers are highly trained and re-trained when any training expires. This training is above and beyond City and State requirements. I can only assume with figures you posted they are grossly overpaid. Somebody has to pay for all these doughnuts

Anonymous said...



So it was a long time ago that we showed up to listen to Dan and the others tell us about the conversion.

Summer has come and gone. Fall passing by and NOT A WORD from the gang. Ya think they might want to comment on that? It's embarrassing at this point for them. They look so stupid now.

Anonymous said...

Poster at 5:41 AM, what the hell are you talking about? You are more obtuse than Tommeyboy!

Anonymous said...

CW Capital took control from the lenders at the end of October 2010 (2 years ago), and the TA announced a partnership with Brookfield at the end of 2011 after a year long search.

So it's been a solid 2 years since it was expected that the tenants would negotiate with CW for the sale of the property.

Anonymous said...

You had that quality of living 20, 30, 40 years ago. You can't expect it to continue when stabilization had not increased as fast as operating costs. Be thankful you have a large apartment at a good rent in manhattan compared to the current market.

Anonymous said...

Actually, we had that quality of living as recently as 2006 (a mere 6 years ago), when Tishman Speyer grossly overpaid for this property. The rest, sadly, is history.

FYI, the single biggest reason for the recent outnumbering by formerly market-rate tenants compared to lower rent-stabilized tenants was the illegal hounding & harassment by TS of rent-stabilized tenants in an effort to (cough*wear them out in court*cough) force them out, that their vacated units could be rented for ridiculously high, unlimited rents(called vacancy decontrol). THAT'S why you pay so much. The Roberts decision addresses some of these inequities. However, CWC is hoping that the market will improve so much (while they drag their feet on Roberts) that they can simply snag another sucker willing to pony up the big bucks. Plus, that way, they don't have to hold their noses and deal with the actual people who live here (even as buyers). If you've ever spoken to the Service Dept., you already know the disdain with which they (none of whom actually live here) hold for us (yes, you too).

So before you claim to have some special insight into who pays for what and for who as well as WHY that is, try learning a little something about where it is that you live. Of course, that might mean having a conversation with someone over the age of 35. (The horrors...the horrors...) Should that thought be just too repellant for you-- you could look up the terms you fail to comprehend (community; rent-stabilized; etc.) or the history of the community you seem so woefully ignorant of... or you could just move out at the end of your lease like so many other self-absorbed, entitled brats. You know, leave the mess for someone else to tend to... kinda like you're used to.

Anonymous said...

DISDAIN is the operative word around here when talking to the "Tenant Relations" department. Anyone dealt with Ms. Habersham? Oy!

Anonymous said...

Mrs. HamberSHAM is a joke. And when I called management to complain about the uncarpeted floors in our new student neighbors' apartment, the only person answering the phones there said there's nobody to speak to regarding the carpet issue anymore. Cole whats-his-name no longer works there - not that he ever did his job, anyway, about enforcing the bogus carpet rule.

Anonymous said...

"You had that quality of living 20, 30, 40 years ago. You can't expect it to continue when stabilization had not increased as fast as operating costs. Be thankful you have a large apartment at a good rent in manhattan compared to the current market."

I was the one who originally posted regarding having that quality of living on a stabilized rent. However, anon 4:29 responded before I had a chance and he/she did so in a far more eloquent way than I could have. Well done! I do want to reiterate that, yeah, we had that quality of life 6 years ago, not 20,30, or 40 years ago. You know not what you speak of.

Anonymous said...

The assertion that operating costs are outpacing stabilized lease increases is simply a myth. The RGB grants yearly increases to landlords that well outpace the ROI, and don't forget that ALL apartments in ST/PCV are rent stabilized, and all subject to those same percentage increases on lease renewals. I hate to see posters put up such absolute poppycock in lieu of facts when discussing NYC rents. When Met sold ST/PCV, the rent roll generated in excess of $100 million dollars a year in profit. Just because Tishman Speyer screwed the pooch with their 4.5 billion waste of investor money, doesn't mean that tenants here should be left holding the bag. Don't people understand that they're all in the same boat at the end ? ST/PCV ain't The Ritz, and never will be. Unless you're some kind of masochist who thinks that spending the bulk of your income on your rent is some sort of positive thing, all I can say is, that's nuts !. Everyone who lives here should be politicking, lobbying and screaming for the preservation of a middle class community.

And one important factor in this equation that new residents need to understand is that the generations that preceded them were mostly people who were either content to maintain a middle class lifestyle, or, if they really succeeded financially would move on up to a higher class of living. The fact that they're trying to bring UP the class of living here in what is still essentially a middle class housing project is pretty much a joke.

Anonymous said...

Oct 10 @ 4:29 PM: Very, very well put! You hit the nail right on the head!

Anonymous said...

I am 48 - well over the age of 35 and have lived here for four years. Not everyone paying market rate is a "yunnie" Alice.

Chris said...

"When Met sold ST/PCV, the rent roll generated in excess of $100 million dollars a year in profit."

Really? Can you document this? That would mean they were netting around $9k per apt--hard to believe.

Truth is, market-rate apartments were becoming available with Met Life because their margins were getting pretty slim. Then they got super-greedy and sold to TS who really messed things up.

I don't like the course of events over the last six years, but the notion that Stuy Town could have carried on as it was is doubtful.

As for "ridiculously high" rents, one-bedrooms here are going for the median rent in Manhattan, $3,500 or so. And the vacancy rate is still around 1%.

Like it or not, this is the Manhattan of 2012.

Anonymous said...

Chris,

All the financials were in the original bid book. If you average a rent of $1500 a month for 11,250 apartments, it grosses at just over 202 million a year.

Anonymous said...

"Truth is, market-rate apartments were becoming available with Met Life because their margins were getting pretty slim. Then they got super-greedy and sold to TS who really messed things up."

Truth is, when MetLife went public under Robert Benmosche (who is now dying cancer, oh what a shame, my heart bleeds NOT) the stockholders wanted a bigger show of profits, so MetLife swooped in on the weakened RS laws, courtesy of Joe Bruno (who is now under indictment for corruption) and converted many RS apartments to Market Rate by tarting them up with cheap "renovations" and getting them out of RS. The vacancy decontrol laws and the crooked pols in Albany and the greedy, despicable Robert Benmosche, are the reason so many RS apartments went to market rate.

Chris said...

Your info makes sense. But the original quote says PROFIT, not gross!

Anonymous said...

Their profit was certainly in excess of $100 million. Why are you so concerned about their profits?

Look, the sale transaction saddled the property with over six BILLION dollars in new debt--much of which was issued at relatively high coupon rates. They sold it for $5.4 billion and created an $800 million slush fund to cover the gap between rent roll and actual expenditures while they did their best to evict tenants with lower rhents. This does not even begin to take into account the cost of the various atrocities that subsequent owners had and continue to "invest" in.

The property was cash flow and net profit positive for years and was well maintained. There was no debt.

This has nothing to do with "Manhattan 2012." This is just an example of a highly leveraged real estate deal gone bad.

You stated:

"Truth is, market-rate apartments were becoming available with Met Life because their margins were getting pretty slim."

Can you back this statement up with financial documents? Do you have personal familiarity with their margins prior to the deal? If you do, you would have to have been in their employ at the time.

Anonymous said...

"They sold it for $5.4 billion and created an $800 million slush fund to cover the gap between rent roll and actual expenditures"

Just to be clear, that $800 million was to cover the debt service, and I think Tishman Speyer burned through that whole shebang in 2 years.

And (if I recall correctly) the Oval Atrocities cost around $4 million (links were posted to the DOB permits that listed construction costs).