Our landlord, BLACKSTONE, can't handle Stuy Town and Peter Cooper Village. There is a lack of enforcement of certain "rules," and no amount of notice to this alleviates the problems. We are continually being told half-truths and fabrications. And we have no viable Tenants organization, despite our TA asking for dues all the time. So far, the politicians have proven to be basically useless. A typical New York story.
Monday, January 7, 2013
Sense of Entitlement Among College Students on a Dramatic Rise
I don't know why I found this of interest in relation to Stuy Town. Can anyone figure it out?
Let's see STR, perhaps it's because so many of the younger people who crowd into Stuy Town's dorm apartments have little to no regard for anyone but themselves?
I had to laugh when I saw a recent post on the PCVST Facebook page about soundproofing apartments with rugs, bookcases, etc.
Here's a thought. To cut down on noise complaints to public safety from those of us who work actual jobs and raise families, stop the practice of subdividing apartments and marketing them to hard partying college-aged kids. The apartments were not meant to accommodate 5 unrelated people! Stop it with the full-page ads featuring 20 somethings that encourage renters to "Live it up!" It would cut the calls about noise, partying, smoking on the stoops, drinking in the oval, recycling dumped in the lobby, furniture strewn about the streets, feces and urine in the stairwells, etc. in half!
To Jan 7 at 3:03 PM: That's what a lot (and I mean a lot!) of us have been saying for a long time. Unfortunately, "management" doesn't give a hoot about real tenants who are the backbone of this complex and just likes to exploit the student demographic to turn a quick buck. It will come back to bite them in the ass eventually, but meantime we have to suffer. We need to file for a diminution of services because of this abuse of the property and the affect it has on the majority of tenants' lives.
Great post, STR! In answer to your question, I haven't slept in several nights due to the all-night noise created by the students living below, next door and above me - so let me try and catch some Zs and then I'll be better equipped to give you a thoughtful answer. Thanks!
Were there less people living here before TS? When this was a "Family" place didn't the husband and wife share a room while the kids shared rooms as well?
If they didn't market to "college students" who would move in? What middle class family of 4 wants a $4400/month two bedroom?
To answer 3:24, yes, we all shared rooms, and we also led normal lives for the day, which meant getting to bed in time for school or work. We didn't dare clomp around on bare floors or play loud music late at night because (quite simply) Met Life wouldn't stand for it. Even after "growing up" and moving into apartments of our own, we were respectful of our neighbors and the property because (again) the landlord demanded the respect.
Today, the landlord cares only about collecting market rate rent checks and could care less about the quality of life of their tenants. And finally, there ARE families living here paying market rate that would love for some stability to be brought back. I bet that they'll be the first ones lined up with mortgage checks in hand, if the place ever comes up for sale. It's just a shame that MetLife was so greedy in pocketing 5.4 billion at the expense of the human beings that live in ST/PCV.
The apartments were affordable and there was a waiting list to get in before Met sold the property. Do your homework before making such stupid statements.
If this place ever gets sold to tenants it should definitely be co-op rather than condo. A co-op board has a lot of say as to who does and does not get to live here and the students should all be thrown out. I don't care whether it's Guterman or Scuterman, I just want the fucking students turfed OUT!
"Were there less people living here before TS? When this was a "Family" place didn't the husband and wife share a room while the kids shared rooms as well?"
There may not have been fewer people, but there was a lot less noise. MetLife enforced the floor covering rule, and every night wasn't party night. Children went to bed at a reasonable hour, as opposed to adults being up late or coming in late. One bedrooms were for one person or couples, not a family with one or two children (glad that family above me moved out).
As for what middle-class family of 4 would want to pay $4,400/month, I guess the answer depends on what they can get for less.
And going along hand and hand with the unrelenting dorming of PCVST is the zero, I repeat ZERO, enforcement of the 80% carpet requirement. Check out these gems from the “Move In / Move Out” section of the PCVST Living URL page, the Resident Info folder: “To help maintain a pleasant living environment, 80% of all floors at all times must be covered with carpeting or area rugs. It is recommended that you add this item to your pre-move-in “to-do” list. Failure to comply with this requirement is a violation of your lease agreement. Please note that after your move-in, the Carpet Inspection Group will contact you to schedule a carpet inspection.”
This a f***ing lie, big time. The dorm apartment above me, there since 7/12, have no carpets, I hear EVERYTHNG they do. PS was called and it’s on the record but that record is now gone due to the incompetence of CWC by not moving all of its paper records to a secured site prior to Sandy, Hello, disaster recovery 101? The current BS protocol, also at the PCVST LVING URL, is for one to call PS to complain. PS has nothing better to do then become RA’s for the Children of the Corn that plague this project? It is MY responsibility for management not enforcing its own leasing policies? With roommates changing every other month, we are truly on a spiral of hell. This shit better be addressed at the 1/26/2012 TA meeting. And at that meeting I really don’t want to hear Carolyn Maloney’s BS any more as well.
In the days before TS, people waited years to get in here, and once they were in they appreciated what they'd got. MetLife evicted people who continuously caused trouble and disruption to other tenants. The vast majority of tenants treated the property and each other with respect and, even if we sometimes felt the LL was a bit dictatorial, we knew there were definite quality of life benefits from that m.o. Whilst I wouldn't want to go back to the "no dogs" and "don't bed a blade of grass" days, I would like to see more respect for the property and tenants from whatever LL we have and/or eventually get. The grounds have been trashed, beautiful trees knocked down and the buildings have become dirty, noisy and, to a large degree, unsafe. We have dorm kids coming and going at all hours, making as much noise at 2 am as they would at 2 pm; illegal flops are common and from the filthy, useless laundry equipment to the vomit stained hall carpets, the place has a seediness and air of deterioration never known before in its history.
Anon at 1106 Totally agree about Maloney. she will likely blame dorm atmosphere on George Bush, after all she has consistently blamed him for every other problem ! She and Nancy Pelosi are a matched pair. Wealthy , nothing better to do ,so they ran for Congress and inflicted themselves on us for years.
"it’s on the record but that record is now gone due to the incompetence of CWC by not moving all of its paper records to a secured site prior to Sandy"
Excellent point. From now on we should demand a copy of complaints made to PS, either hard copy or via email. I'm not sure what the next step is--311? Some other legal move? But we all need to have documentation. Or we could make up our own form stating when we called PS and have officers sign it when they show up. They won't like that, but if enough of us do it... Or follow up an unresolved complaint with a letter or email, to create a file.
Don't bother calling the so-called "tenant relations" person, Mrs. HaberSHAM to complain about noise and lack of carpeting. She's the main reason that nothing is done to enforce the carpeting rules and silence the noise makers. All she does is tell you to call Security when there's noise or blame you for provoking the students into making the noise. Yes, I'm serious!
I read this blog from time to time and QOL is a big issue, and you guys are right to complain about the noise and the lack of floor carpeting. However you are going about this all wrong.
The transient 20 somethings paying more then 50% of their income to live here don't have the money to carpet their apartments for the 1 or 2 years they are here. Instead of getting mad at them, put pressure on CW to carpet the apartments themselves. New apartments should come with carpeting by default, unless the new tenants choose to supply their own carpeting.
CW is making enough money off these kids, they can afford to lay down some cheap carpeting on new leases.
Taking to a friend of mine, since we are a de facto dormitory, are sprinklers not required? If not for the dorm apartments, how about for our Mac Horror laundry facilitates? Another fire code violation like the doors?
Being subjected to constant, loud stomping coming from the uncarpeted floors of these selfish students is sheer TORTURE 24/7. We are constantly disturbed and woken up by the unbearable stomping coming from the 4 bros in the apartment BELOW us, and we're on the top floor. Not only do they mindlessly stomp around on their uncarpeted floors, but they bizarrely throw furniture, slam bathroom and closet doors and shout until 3:00 AM many nights. I feel sorry for all the others who are forced to live this way, as well. We just want to be able to enjoy our homes and sleep at night -- apparently, that's too much to ask from management.
“The transient 20 somethings paying more then 50% of their income to live here don't have the money to carpet their apartments for the 1 or 2 years they are here.” BS. The vast majority of these transients are funded by their parents. Their parents, who guarantee the lease, are also their financial backers. Time to grow up millenniums, when you sign a legal document such as a rental lease , you are obligated to follow it or face eviction…………………………………………..…Wait a second, I just had a laughing asthma type attack. Must… stop… laughing.
I've been living in ST for 32 years so I remember how Metlife dealt with QOL issues compared to the current morons.
I've had students (fratboys) in adjacent apartments on and off for about 6 years now. They come and go as expected. Some are much noisier and disrespectful than others.
Here's how you can deal with neighbors making excessive noise. I don't call security anymore to lodge complaints since that's a waste of time.
What I do is face my tower speakers right up against the wall at the offending apartment and blast music with a lot of drumming and trumpets. I do this when I think they are sleeping and sure enough it wakes them up and they begin pounding on my wall. I just keep blasting the music. Usually this method works for me in quieting them down. It might take a few weeks of me doing this but they get the message if they want to get some sleep.
They rarely call security on me because they know they are usually the ones making the most noise.
Having been born and raised in Da Bronx I know all too well to fight fire with fire and don't back down until you get the results you deserve.
I would NEVER share the risk of ownership with you people. I want condo so my investment is protected. >>
What do you mean by YOU people? How would your investment be any safer in a condo? Do you mean so that you could rent to any riff raff who would pay you top dollar? If that's the case, I want all the more for it to go co-op.
We definitely need to get up a group who will file an application with the DHCR for a rent reduction for the reduction of services and the ongoing safety hazards. We are not equiped to be a dorm. There has already been several fires, one that absolutely gutted an apartment and damaged neighbors' property. The Tenants Association is FUCKING USELESS and doesn't give a damn about any of this, so we need to join together and take some action ourselves. As for that Habersham woman, she told me that by asking the students to be quiet they could sue for harrassment! Harrassment my harrASSment! The stupid bitch works solely and exclusively as a go buffer for management to stonewall any and every tenant complaint. She has no other function than that.
Just about the students....what do you think happens if only 30-40% of the tenants can afford to buy? Simple. The sponsor owns the majority of the apts and sets policy for at least 5 years. And what will that policy be? Rent to students as much as possible because the money is so good. That's why it's critical that we make our voices heard. Because a money guy like Wilbur Ross has already said he wants no part of the place if it means a lot of warring with & among tenants & Wilbur is only in it for the most money he can get. We want to support plans that allow as many tenants to buy as possible. And yes, co-ops traditionally have given boards more control and tenants more protection than condo formats.
1:19 PM: If the vile whelps who live downstairs from you are that bad, if you know their names you can utilize many tools on the web to find out exactly where they are from and who their failure parents are. Maybe a little recording of their antics, accompanied by a few photos, sent to their rotten parents could embarrass them enough to do something about their spawn? Remember that Tishman Speyer utilized tools (some free and some at a price) to try to harass and evict perfectly legal rent stabilized tenants. Those same tools are available to us to utilize and shame these students. They break the laws of New York City noise ordinances, fire codes and habitability laws. No harm in exposing those facts.
Listen to yourselves and read your comments. "Sense of entitlement among college students"...what I'm seeing is a sense of entitlement amongst a whole other class of tenancy.
I was raised in Stuyvesant Town in the late 70's and 80's and I distinctly remember a number of similar issues then that we are suffering through now. I remember my father constantly getting upset with the neighbors upstairs regarding their noise. I remember sleeping in my room and having to deal with the cigarette smoke from next door. None of this is new so for those that have lived here for more than 15 years to say it is...who's entitled now? In fact, I'm going through noise issues now with an upstairs neighbor and guess what...she's not a student and is in her 40's and has lived here pre TS days. There are two young men living in the apartment next door who are not student but in their mid-20's who both work in the financial industry and they've lived there for a year and I haven't heard boo from that apartment.
I'm not defending anyone but if we're going to complain and whine in a public forum at least let's do it properly and get our facts straight. This property is never going to go coopr or condo in any of our lifetimes. There are too many hurdles to go through at the Attorney General's office.
Also, those in the TA that want to convert this property, quite frankly, want to do it for no other reason than to generate their retirement plan and quickly buy and flip their apartments for a nice profit. Let's be real. What has the TA done for any of us? The fire violation in PCV? How long has that been there. Instead of being reactive, maybe our TA should be proactive for once.
To the poster at 1:18 regarding sprinklers...no this property is not required to have sprinklers in an apartment. The compactor rooms have sprinklers and they're the only rooms required to do so.
Update: They just started taking the flag down at night. How dare CW ignore the presidential proclamation of flags flown at half staff weeks ago as a mark of respect for Newtown victims?
Stop the madness. Hit management in the pocket WE NEED TO PROTEST/ DEMONSTRATE OUTSIDE THE LEASING OFFICE ON 1ST AVENUE. We should have signs & shout warnings to potential renters entering or leaving the leasing office. Tell them about lack of services, the noise, the fire hazards, absence of security, little enforcement of rules and how damaged the entire property was from Sandy. I'm sure the parents of these students would not be happy.
To Jonathan Trainor: No matter who it was who was creating the noise and disturbance in the 70s and 80s, the fact remains that these days it is the students and they are far worse than any class of tenants we have had in my lifetime of living here, which is almost 60 years.
Yeah, what about those fire doors, and the ice skating rink where IDs are not checked, and the partial loss of the Oval to accommodate GROW NYC, and Dan Garodnick's plan to crack down on bikes, and the illegal hotels, and all of the other things the Tenants Associate and Dan Garodnick get publicity for. What's become of those things??? I won't check the Ta's facebook page because it's nothing but posts about broken TVs and Marriage tapes!
This may sound far-fetched, but I think that when rent stabilized tenants complain about the noise (especially during the late night/early morning hours)the offenders are told by management to keep it up - or at least they give tacit approval of the behavior - because they want to harass the rs tenants out of their apartments. They probably do the same thing regarding the market rate tenants too because their whole M.O. is "churn baby, churn" and they just don't want anybody here for a longer period of time than, say, one 2-year lease. I suspect that the Habersham woman is well in on this and is doing exactly what her handlers instruct her to do.
not only should we be getting a rent reduction for having students foisted upon us and being subjected to dorm conditions (something we never anticipated when we moved here), but we also don't have intercoms that are connected to Public Safety any more. We are paying an MCI charge in our rent for these crappy, useless intercoms. They don't work half the time, they didn't give us emergency notification during the storm (or at any time else such as when Irene was bearing down) and now they don't connect to PS. We should NOT be paying for this shit!
A failure to consistently respond to noise complaints could be another grounds for a complex-wide petition for a rent reduction based on diminution of services. How about it TA - while we wait forever for STPCV to be put up for sale, why not hit CW where it hurts , i.e. in the pocketbook by filing such a petition? You've completed a survey of major quality of life issues in STPCV -why not put that information to a practical use?
These young people today have such marvelous posture. And they walk so quickly! Those are most certainly two attributes that alone go a long way towards giving one self confidence.
If you think it's bad now just wait. Those of us unfortunate market renters who got screwed by the Roberts decision will soon be leaving here and I guesstimate that about 10-15% of units complex wide will become vacant by 2014, if not by May of 2013. Who will be able to afford these new and higher rents? NYU students, crammed into 1 and 2 BR apts, that's who. "Affordable middle-class housing" my arse. My current rent of nearly 4K a month is about to become 5K and let's be honest, 60K a year is not affordable for a "middle class" person. Someone making over 200k a year can swing it but I suspect they would rather pay that elsewhere.
"Update: They just started taking the flag down at night. How dare CW ignore the presidential proclamation of flags flown at half staff weeks ago as a mark of respect for Newtown victims?"
I'm glad to hear they are finally treating the flag with the respect it deserves. Treating us like shit is one thing, but they are going too far when they do that to the flag, especially in a place built for veterans and which still has a lot of veterans living here.
What I find particularly appalling are the SLOBS who leave empty beer bottles, pizza boxes and sundry bags of garbage OUTSIDE the carriage room door. Are these JERKS so lazy that they can't get the key, open the door, and put their crap where it belongs? But my outrage is somehow tempered by the wafts of marijuana smoke permeating the elevator, hallway and stairways as I return to my apartment, as I listen to the 100 decibel mega speakers blasting from the floor below. Sure I'm going to buy when this dump if it goes coop or condo....when pigs fly!
I would love for Sean Sullivan to come and live in one of these apartments that have a bunch of students either upstairs or downstairs from him. Let him listen to the hoofs in heels on the uncarpeted floors, the falling around at 2 am when these assholes come home, the fucking music being played at all hours and the stench of weed emanating through the halls. I challenge him to come and live here for a few weeks and see how much sleep and peaceful habitability he experiences. He would be fucking crying for his mommy at the end of one week, but we have to endure it all the time and we are paying our hard-earned money to live here. If this dorm invasion is not a deliberate form of harassment of tenants, then the mob is a benevolent society. The TA does nothing to address this harassment and is as about as much use to real tenants as a pair of tits on a bull. I am SICK of living in a dorm even though my lease states otherwise. Either the students have to go or we have to stop paying rent until they do go. TA, do you hear me? This place will never be purchased by the TA and Garodnick is just a fly-by-night opportunist. We need a real Tenants' Association that has some balls and gumption and is willing to fight for the rights of tenants and stop living in the la la land dreamworld of ownership. This is a rental property; always has been and always will be. It is being violated by CW and NYU (and the other so-called schools that have jumped on the bandwaggon) and we real tenants are being used and abused by management (if you want to call it that) and the seats of academic mediocrity that are cashing in at the expense of our quality of life and participating in this abuse.
HaberSHAM told me the same thing -- that because I'd politely asked the noisy students below me to keep the noise down (which they ignored) I had "provoked" them into making more noise, so it's my fault!
The only way to solve this is for tenants to band together and protest, stage a rent strike or other action that would get media attention. Like others said, contacting management about noise is a waste of time. And how much does Mrs. HaberSHAM get paid for doing absolutely nothing?
>>I'm glad to hear they are finally treating the flag with the respect it deserves. Treating us like shit is one thing, but they are going too far when they do that to the flag, especially in a place built for veterans and which still has a lot of veterans living here.<<
I noticed over the weekend, including the rainy night, that the flags were NOT taken down.
Jan 15 @ 10:51: Habersham does not get paid for doing nothing. She does her job. Unfortunately, her job is ensure the continued harassment of tenants, especially RS tenants and drive as many people out as possible in order to free up units for illegal conversion to dorms. I wouldn't be surprised if she gets kickbacks from NYU, SVA. et al. Also, the reason why the students are of such low quality is because the fees are so high due to John Sexton's expansion plans. They will admit the kind of people who would not have been given a second look when NYU really was a great university.
If Sean Sullivan is really a former Marine, then he should no better than to be so disrespectful of the flag. I wouldn't expect too much from Andy Mac and his ilk, but I do expect better from Sullivan.
"This is a rental property; always has been and always will be. It is being violated by CW and NYU (and the other so-called schools that have jumped on the bandwaggon) and we real tenants are being used and abused by management (if you want to call it that) and the seats of academic mediocrity that are cashing in at the expense of our quality of life and participating in this abuse."
Sorry to break it to you, but this IS a rental property and we're all in leasehold estates so bottom line...ownership can do whatever and rent to whomever they want.
You all should have a look at the PCVST (corporate) page on facebook. It's full of posts about pizza, the skating rink and restaurant week. WTF?
Meanwhile, the tenants are screaming about deposits they fail to return, basements that are closed, no laundry facilities and a total lack of communication by management.
What the hell is going on here? This is a total sham! The storm passed three months ago and we have no idea as to where we stand.
"According to Habersham all records of noise complaints and visits by PS were destroyed by the storm. How conveeeeenient!"
What I said above on 1/9: From now on we should demand a copy of complaints made to PS, either hard copy or via email. I'm not sure what the next step is--311? Some other legal move? But we all need to have documentation. Or we could make up our own form stating when we called PS and have officers sign it when they show up. They won't like that, but if enough of us do it... Or follow up an unresolved complaint with a letter or email, to create a file.
I was walking my registered dog this morning and saw a guy bring his dog over to a no dog area and didn't clean up after him. I stared at the guy in complete disbelief. I could not believe he just let the dog go and not clean it up. And usually I am the type to say something but in reality this guy doesn't care. And it wasn't worth me getting into a fight with him. I have called people out before and it usually turns nasty.
This made me so mad because it makes all dog owners look bad. I am responsible with my dog and understand the frustration by residents about the dog crap all over. Its disgusting and beyond irresponsible.
I just had to vent about this as usually you see the aftermath but to see someone have no problem being such a poor neighbor and walking away from this mess really upset me.
With this said, please know there are some of us who follow the rules and are respectful with our pets.
"ownership can do whatever..they want " This comment is beyond dumb. PCVST, for the hundred time, the ENTIRE project is currently under the NYS RS law.
I really want to own my apartment! Are the black flies and mold free or is there an extra charge? The only good thing about the college kids is they sell me pot.
I've lived in my apartment for 35 years and never had there once been ANY type of vibration or loud stomping UNTIL the 4-6 unrelated college kids move in December 2011. From December 2011 - now it's been a living hell. STOMP! Bang! DRAGGING CHAIRS! I don't live like this and my rent is high enough that I shouldn't have to put up with this nonsense.
The TA needs to address the problem of these students being crammed into units. Not only is this practice a fire hazard, but the level of disturbance to non-student tenants is totally unacceptable and a serious QOL issue. We need to get rid of these "dorms" and the sooner the better.
I was kept awake half the night (from 1:30 to 5:00 am) by the idiot students downstairs from me walking around in heels, dragging furniture and dropping things. Emails to Sean Sullivan and Legal Dept. have achieved a big fat NOTHING. Not even a response or acknowledgment of any kind. I wonder how long it would take them to wake up if I fail to send in my rent check?
It's friday night and it's party time (12am). I'm in the master bedroom now since the living room felt like an earthquake zone. BOOM! BANG! BOOM! The walls were shaking and I could feel the vibrations on my feet. No, I don't have a chair on the ceiling so needless to say this is WAY too much. BOOOOOM! Random screams! I don't live in San Fransisco so why am I being subjected to earthquake type settings here in New York City? I don't spilt the rent with 6-8 people so I feel I shouldnt have to put up with this crap. I called security 2 months ago but nothing has changed. Since I've lived here all my life and noise such as BOOM and VIBRATING CEILINGS AND WALLS has never been a problem...I have a serious problem living like this. What is being done about this? They're sooo loud I can hear every word they're screaming. How is that normal? It's driving me crazy. It's going to get to the point where i'm going to seriously go up there and kick someones' ass. Yes, it's that bad.
65 comments:
Let's see STR, perhaps it's because so many of the younger people who crowd into Stuy Town's dorm apartments have little to no regard for anyone but themselves?
I had to laugh when I saw a recent post on the PCVST Facebook page about soundproofing apartments with rugs, bookcases, etc.
Here's a thought. To cut down on noise complaints to public safety from those of us who work actual jobs and raise families, stop the practice of subdividing apartments and marketing them to hard partying college-aged kids. The apartments were not meant to accommodate 5 unrelated people! Stop it with the full-page ads featuring 20 somethings that encourage renters to "Live it up!" It would cut the calls about noise, partying, smoking on the stoops, drinking in the oval, recycling dumped in the lobby, furniture strewn about the streets, feces and urine in the stairwells, etc. in half!
To Jan 7 at 3:03 PM: That's what a lot (and I mean a lot!) of us have been saying for a long time. Unfortunately, "management" doesn't give a hoot about real tenants who are the backbone of this complex and just likes to exploit the student demographic to turn a quick buck. It will come back to bite them in the ass eventually, but meantime we have to suffer. We need to file for a diminution of services because of this abuse of the property and the affect it has on the majority of tenants' lives.
Great post, STR! In answer to your question, I haven't slept in several nights due to the all-night noise created by the students living below, next door and above me - so let me try and catch some Zs and then I'll be better equipped to give you a thoughtful answer. Thanks!
Were there less people living here before TS? When this was a "Family" place didn't the husband and wife share a room while the kids shared rooms as well?
If they didn't market to "college students" who would move in? What middle class family of 4 wants a $4400/month two bedroom?
To answer 3:24, yes, we all shared rooms, and we also led normal lives for the day, which meant getting to bed in time for school or work. We didn't dare clomp around on bare floors or play loud music late at night because (quite simply) Met Life wouldn't stand for it. Even after "growing up" and moving into apartments of our own, we were respectful of our neighbors and the property because (again) the landlord demanded the respect.
Today, the landlord cares only about collecting market rate rent checks and could care less about the quality of life of their tenants. And finally, there ARE families living here paying market rate that would love for some stability to be brought back. I bet that they'll be the first ones lined up with mortgage checks in hand, if the place ever comes up for sale. It's just a shame that MetLife was so greedy in pocketing 5.4 billion at the expense of the human beings that live in ST/PCV.
The apartments were affordable and there was a waiting list to get in before Met sold the property. Do your homework before making such stupid statements.
If this place ever gets sold to tenants it should definitely be co-op rather than condo. A co-op board has a lot of say as to who does and does not get to live here and the students should all be thrown out. I don't care whether it's Guterman or Scuterman, I just want the fucking students turfed OUT!
"Were there less people living here before TS? When this was a "Family" place didn't the husband and wife share a room while the kids shared rooms as well?"
There may not have been fewer people, but there was a lot less noise. MetLife enforced the floor covering rule, and every night wasn't party night. Children went to bed at a reasonable hour, as opposed to adults being up late or coming in late. One bedrooms were for one person or couples, not a family with one or two children (glad that family above me moved out).
As for what middle-class family of 4 would want to pay $4,400/month, I guess the answer depends on what they can get for less.
And going along hand and hand with the unrelenting dorming of PCVST is the zero, I repeat ZERO, enforcement of the 80% carpet requirement. Check out these gems from the “Move In / Move Out” section of the PCVST Living URL page, the Resident Info folder:
“To help maintain a pleasant living environment, 80% of all floors at all times must be covered with carpeting or area rugs. It is recommended that you add this item to your pre-move-in “to-do” list. Failure to comply with this requirement is a violation of your lease agreement. Please note that after your move-in, the Carpet Inspection Group will contact you to schedule a carpet inspection.”
This a f***ing lie, big time. The dorm apartment above me, there since 7/12, have no carpets, I hear EVERYTHNG they do. PS was called and it’s on the record but that record is now gone due to the incompetence of CWC by not moving all of its paper records to a secured site prior to Sandy, Hello, disaster recovery 101? The current BS protocol, also at the PCVST LVING URL, is for one to call PS to complain. PS has nothing better to do then become RA’s for the Children of the Corn that plague this project? It is MY responsibility for management not enforcing its own leasing policies? With roommates changing every other month, we are truly on a spiral of hell. This shit better be addressed at the 1/26/2012 TA meeting. And at that meeting I really don’t want to hear Carolyn Maloney’s BS any more as well.
...What middle class family of 4 wants a $4400/month two bedroom?
Answer: 6 students and 6 weekend friends. ( Bed bugs optional )
Management is laughing at all our student complaints. All the way to the bank, they lol.
In the days before TS, people waited years to get in here, and once they were in they appreciated what they'd got. MetLife evicted people who continuously caused trouble and disruption to other tenants. The vast majority of tenants treated the property and each other with respect and, even if we sometimes felt the LL was a bit dictatorial, we knew there were definite quality of life benefits from that m.o. Whilst I wouldn't want to go back to the "no dogs" and "don't bed a blade of grass" days, I would like to see more respect for the property and tenants from whatever LL we have and/or eventually get. The grounds have been trashed, beautiful trees knocked down and the buildings have become dirty, noisy and, to a large degree, unsafe. We have dorm kids coming and going at all hours, making as much noise at 2 am as they would at 2 pm; illegal flops are common and from the filthy, useless laundry equipment to the vomit stained hall carpets, the place has a seediness and air of deterioration never known before in its history.
Anon at 1106
Totally agree about Maloney. she will likely blame dorm atmosphere on George Bush, after all she has consistently blamed him for every other problem ! She and Nancy Pelosi are a matched pair. Wealthy , nothing better to do ,so they ran for Congress and inflicted themselves on us for years.
"it’s on the record but that record is now gone due to the incompetence of CWC by not moving all of its paper records to a secured site prior to Sandy"
Excellent point. From now on we should demand a copy of complaints made to PS, either hard copy or via email. I'm not sure what the next step is--311? Some other legal move? But we all need to have documentation. Or we could make up our own form stating when we called PS and have officers sign it when they show up. They won't like that, but if enough of us do it... Or follow up an unresolved complaint with a letter or email, to create a file.
Don't bother calling the so-called "tenant relations" person, Mrs. HaberSHAM to complain about noise and lack of carpeting. She's the main reason that nothing is done to enforce the carpeting rules and silence the noise makers. All she does is tell you to call Security when there's noise or blame you for provoking the students into making the noise. Yes, I'm serious!
Great posts, everybody!
I read this blog from time to time and QOL is a big issue, and you guys are right to complain about the noise and the lack of floor carpeting. However you are going about this all wrong.
The transient 20 somethings paying more then 50% of their income to live here don't have the money to carpet their apartments for the 1 or 2 years they are here. Instead of getting mad at them, put pressure on CW to carpet the apartments themselves. New apartments should come with carpeting by default, unless the new tenants choose to supply their own carpeting.
CW is making enough money off these kids, they can afford to lay down some cheap carpeting on new leases.
I would NEVER share the risk of ownership with you people. I want condo so my investment is protected.
Taking to a friend of mine, since we are a de facto dormitory, are sprinklers not required? If not for the dorm apartments, how about for our Mac Horror laundry facilitates? Another fire code violation like the doors?
http://law.justia.com/codes/new-york/2006/new-york-city-administrative-code-new/adc027-954_27-954.html
Being subjected to constant, loud stomping coming from the uncarpeted floors of these selfish students is sheer TORTURE 24/7. We are constantly disturbed and woken up by the unbearable stomping coming from the 4 bros in the apartment BELOW us, and we're on the top floor. Not only do they mindlessly stomp around on their uncarpeted floors, but they bizarrely throw furniture, slam bathroom and closet doors and shout until 3:00 AM many nights. I feel sorry for all the others who are forced to live this way, as well. We just want to be able to enjoy our homes and sleep at night -- apparently, that's too much to ask from management.
“The transient 20 somethings paying more then 50% of their income to live here don't have the money to carpet their apartments for the 1 or 2 years they are here.” BS. The vast majority of these transients are funded by their parents. Their parents, who guarantee the lease, are also their financial backers. Time to grow up millenniums, when you sign a legal document such as a rental lease , you are obligated to follow it or face eviction…………………………………………..…Wait a second, I just had a laughing asthma type attack. Must… stop… laughing.
I've been living in ST for 32 years so I remember how Metlife dealt with QOL issues compared to the current morons.
I've had students (fratboys) in adjacent apartments on and off for about 6 years now. They come and go as expected. Some are much noisier and disrespectful than others.
Here's how you can deal with neighbors making excessive noise. I don't call security anymore to lodge complaints since that's a waste of time.
What I do is face my tower speakers right up against the wall at the offending apartment and blast music with a lot of drumming and trumpets. I do this when I think they are sleeping and sure enough it wakes them up and they begin pounding on my wall. I just keep blasting the music. Usually this method works for me in quieting them down. It might take a few weeks of me doing this but they get the message if they want to get some sleep.
They rarely call security on me because they know they are usually the ones making the most noise.
Having been born and raised in Da Bronx I know all too well to fight fire with fire and don't back down until you get the results you deserve.
This is Anony 1.18, re sprinklers, they are in the Mac Horror laundry rooms.My bad.
I would NEVER share the risk of ownership with you people. I want condo so my investment is protected. >>
What do you mean by YOU people? How would your investment be any safer in a condo? Do you mean so that you could rent to any riff raff who would pay you top dollar? If that's the case, I want all the more for it to go co-op.
We definitely need to get up a group who will file an application with the DHCR for a rent reduction for the reduction of services and the ongoing safety hazards. We are not equiped to be a dorm. There has already been several fires, one that absolutely gutted an apartment and damaged neighbors' property. The Tenants Association is FUCKING USELESS and doesn't give a damn about any of this, so we need to join together and take some action ourselves. As for that Habersham woman, she told me that by asking the students to be quiet they could sue for harrassment! Harrassment my harrASSment! The stupid bitch works solely and exclusively as a go buffer for management to stonewall any and every tenant complaint. She has no other function than that.
Just about the students....what do you think happens if only 30-40% of the tenants can afford to buy? Simple. The sponsor owns the majority of the apts and sets policy for at least 5 years. And what will that policy be? Rent to students as much as possible because the money is so good. That's why it's critical that we make our voices heard. Because a money guy like Wilbur Ross has already said he wants no part of the place if it means a lot of warring with & among tenants & Wilbur is only in it for the most money he can get. We want to support plans that allow as many tenants to buy as possible. And yes, co-ops traditionally have given boards more control and tenants more protection than condo formats.
1:19 PM: If the vile whelps who live downstairs from you are that bad, if you know their names you can utilize many tools on the web to find out exactly where they are from and who their failure parents are. Maybe a little recording of their antics, accompanied by a few photos, sent to their rotten parents could embarrass them enough to do something about their spawn? Remember that Tishman Speyer utilized tools (some free and some at a price) to try to harass and evict perfectly legal rent stabilized tenants. Those same tools are available to us to utilize and shame these students. They break the laws of New York City noise ordinances, fire codes and habitability laws. No harm in exposing those facts.
Listen to yourselves and read your comments. "Sense of entitlement among college students"...what I'm seeing is a sense of entitlement amongst a whole other class of tenancy.
I was raised in Stuyvesant Town in the late 70's and 80's and I distinctly remember a number of similar issues then that we are suffering through now. I remember my father constantly getting upset with the neighbors upstairs regarding their noise. I remember sleeping in my room and having to deal with the cigarette smoke from next door. None of this is new so for those that have lived here for more than 15 years to say it is...who's entitled now? In fact, I'm going through noise issues now with an upstairs neighbor and guess what...she's not a student and is in her 40's and has lived here pre TS days. There are two young men living in the apartment next door who are not student but in their mid-20's who both work in the financial industry and they've lived there for a year and I haven't heard boo from that apartment.
I'm not defending anyone but if we're going to complain and whine in a public forum at least let's do it properly and get our facts straight. This property is never going to go coopr or condo in any of our lifetimes. There are too many hurdles to go through at the Attorney General's office.
Also, those in the TA that want to convert this property, quite frankly, want to do it for no other reason than to generate their retirement plan and quickly buy and flip their apartments for a nice profit. Let's be real. What has the TA done for any of us? The fire violation in PCV? How long has that been there. Instead of being reactive, maybe our TA should be proactive for once.
To the poster at 1:18 regarding sprinklers...no this property is not required to have sprinklers in an apartment. The compactor rooms have sprinklers and they're the only rooms required to do so.
Update: They just started taking the flag down at night. How dare CW ignore the presidential proclamation of flags flown at half staff weeks ago as a mark of respect for Newtown victims?
Stop the madness. Hit management in the pocket WE NEED TO PROTEST/ DEMONSTRATE OUTSIDE THE LEASING OFFICE ON 1ST AVENUE. We should have signs & shout warnings to potential renters entering or leaving the leasing office. Tell them about lack of services, the noise, the fire hazards, absence of security, little enforcement of rules and how damaged the entire property was from Sandy. I'm sure the parents of these students would not be happy.
To Jonathan Trainor: No matter who it was who was creating the noise and disturbance in the 70s and 80s, the fact remains that these days it is the students and they are far worse than any class of tenants we have had in my lifetime of living here, which is almost 60 years.
Yeah, what about those fire doors, and the ice skating rink where IDs are not checked, and the partial loss of the Oval to accommodate GROW NYC, and Dan Garodnick's plan to crack down on bikes, and the illegal hotels, and all of the other things the Tenants Associate and Dan Garodnick get publicity for. What's become of those things??? I won't check the Ta's facebook page because it's nothing but posts about broken TVs and Marriage tapes!
This may sound far-fetched, but I think that when rent stabilized tenants complain about the noise (especially during the late night/early morning hours)the offenders are told by management to keep it up - or at least they give tacit approval of the behavior - because they want to harass the rs tenants out of their apartments. They probably do the same thing regarding the market rate tenants too because their whole M.O. is "churn baby, churn" and they just don't want anybody here for a longer period of time than, say, one 2-year lease. I suspect that the Habersham woman is well in on this and is doing exactly what her handlers instruct her to do.
Where are the dogs restricted area signs?
"Where are the dogs restricted area signs?"
Good question.
not only should we be getting a rent reduction for having students foisted upon us and being subjected to dorm conditions (something we never anticipated when we moved here), but we also don't have intercoms that are connected to Public Safety any more. We are paying an MCI charge in our rent for these crappy, useless intercoms. They don't work half the time, they didn't give us emergency notification during the storm (or at any time else such as when Irene was bearing down) and now they don't connect to PS. We should NOT be paying for this shit!
Market rate people are bothered by noise too.
A failure to consistently respond to noise complaints could be another grounds for a complex-wide petition for a rent reduction based on diminution of services. How about it TA - while we wait forever for STPCV to be put up for sale, why not hit CW where it hurts , i.e. in the pocketbook by filing such a petition? You've completed a survey of major quality of life issues in STPCV -why not put that information to a practical use?
These young people today have such marvelous posture. And they walk so quickly! Those are most certainly two attributes that alone go a long way towards giving one self confidence.
If you think it's bad now just wait. Those of us unfortunate market renters who got screwed by the Roberts decision will soon be leaving here and I guesstimate that about 10-15% of units complex wide will become vacant by 2014, if not by May of 2013. Who will be able to afford these new and higher rents?
NYU students, crammed into 1 and 2 BR apts, that's who.
"Affordable middle-class housing" my arse. My current rent of nearly 4K a month is about to become 5K and let's be honest, 60K a year is not affordable for a "middle class" person. Someone making over 200k a year can swing it but I suspect they would rather pay that elsewhere.
"Update: They just started taking the flag down at night. How dare CW ignore the presidential proclamation of flags flown at half staff weeks ago as a mark of respect for Newtown victims?"
I'm glad to hear they are finally treating the flag with the respect it deserves. Treating us like shit is one thing, but they are going too far when they do that to the flag, especially in a place built for veterans and which still has a lot of veterans living here.
What I find particularly appalling are the SLOBS who leave empty beer bottles, pizza boxes and sundry bags of garbage OUTSIDE the carriage room door. Are these JERKS so lazy that they can't get the key, open the door, and put their crap where it belongs? But my outrage is somehow tempered by the wafts of marijuana smoke permeating the elevator, hallway and stairways as I return to my apartment, as I listen to the 100 decibel mega speakers blasting from the floor below. Sure I'm going to buy when this dump if it goes coop or condo....when pigs fly!
I would love for Sean Sullivan to come and live in one of these apartments that have a bunch of students either upstairs or downstairs from him. Let him listen to the hoofs in heels on the uncarpeted floors, the falling around at 2 am when these assholes come home, the fucking music being played at all hours and the stench of weed emanating through the halls. I challenge him to come and live here for a few weeks and see how much sleep and peaceful habitability he experiences. He would be fucking crying for his mommy at the end of one week, but we have to endure it all the time and we are paying our hard-earned money to live here. If this dorm invasion is not a deliberate form of harassment of tenants, then the mob is a benevolent society. The TA does nothing to address this harassment and is as about as much use to real tenants as a pair of tits on a bull. I am SICK of living in a dorm even though my lease states otherwise. Either the students have to go or we have to stop paying rent until they do go. TA, do you hear me? This place will never be purchased by the TA and Garodnick is just a fly-by-night opportunist. We need a real Tenants' Association that has some balls and gumption and is willing to fight for the rights of tenants and stop living in the la la land dreamworld of ownership. This is a rental property; always has been and always will be. It is being violated by CW and NYU (and the other so-called schools that have jumped on the bandwaggon) and we real tenants are being used and abused by management (if you want to call it that) and the seats of academic mediocrity that are cashing in at the expense of our quality of life and participating in this abuse.
"Where are the dogs restricted area signs?"
Gone With the Wind.
Cue in Max Steiner. Fiddle-dee-dee!
Hope you are ok, STR. Hope you didn't come down with the flu as so many (including me) did. Wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy! It's a horror!
Anon 6:36 PM:
HaberSHAM told me the same thing -- that because I'd politely asked the noisy students below me to keep the noise down (which they ignored) I had "provoked" them into making more noise, so it's my fault!
The only way to solve this is for tenants to band together and protest, stage a rent strike or other action that would get media attention. Like others said, contacting management about noise is a waste of time. And how much does Mrs. HaberSHAM get paid for doing absolutely nothing?
Where are the dogs restricted area signs?
In people's apartments, since each time they replace the signs they are stolen.
>>I'm glad to hear they are finally treating the flag with the respect it deserves. Treating us like shit is one thing, but they are going too far when they do that to the flag, especially in a place built for veterans and which still has a lot of veterans living here.<<
I noticed over the weekend, including the rainy night, that the flags were NOT taken down.
>>Hope you are ok, STR. Hope you didn't come down with the flu as so many (including me) did.<<
Thanks for asking. I actually did come down with something, but I don't think it's the flu. Still not 100%. Hope you feel better.
Jan 15 @ 10:51: Habersham does not get paid for doing nothing. She does her job. Unfortunately, her job is ensure the continued harassment of tenants, especially RS tenants and drive as many people out as possible in order to free up units for illegal conversion to dorms. I wouldn't be surprised if she gets kickbacks from NYU, SVA. et al.
Also, the reason why the students are of such low quality is because the fees are so high due to John Sexton's expansion plans. They will admit the kind of people who would not have been given a second look when NYU really was a great university.
According to Habersham all records of noise complaints and visits by PS were destroyed by the storm. How conveeeeenient!
...Where are the dogs restricted area signs?
Please put them up again. The dog owners are at it again, not picking up, dogs loose in the gardens, pits all around.
If Sean Sullivan is really a former Marine, then he should no better than to be so disrespectful of the flag. I wouldn't expect too much from Andy Mac and his ilk, but I do expect better from Sullivan.
"This is a rental property; always has been and always will be. It is being violated by CW and NYU (and the other so-called schools that have jumped on the bandwaggon) and we real tenants are being used and abused by management (if you want to call it that) and the seats of academic mediocrity that are cashing in at the expense of our quality of life and participating in this abuse."
Sorry to break it to you, but this IS a rental property and we're all in leasehold estates so bottom line...ownership can do whatever and rent to whomever they want.
You all should have a look at the PCVST (corporate) page on facebook. It's full of posts about pizza, the skating rink and restaurant week. WTF?
Meanwhile, the tenants are screaming about deposits they fail to return, basements that are closed, no laundry facilities and a total lack of communication by management.
What the hell is going on here? This is a total sham! The storm passed three months ago and we have no idea as to where we stand.
Totally unacceptable.
"According to Habersham all records of noise complaints and visits by PS were destroyed by the storm. How conveeeeenient!"
What I said above on 1/9:
From now on we should demand a copy of complaints made to PS, either hard copy or via email. I'm not sure what the next step is--311? Some other legal move? But we all need to have documentation. Or we could make up our own form stating when we called PS and have officers sign it when they show up. They won't like that, but if enough of us do it... Or follow up an unresolved complaint with a letter or email, to create a file.
I was walking my registered dog this morning and saw a guy bring his dog over to a no dog area and didn't clean up after him. I stared at the guy in complete disbelief. I could not believe he just let the dog go and not clean it up. And usually I am the type to say something but in reality this guy doesn't care. And it wasn't worth me getting into a fight with him. I have called people out before and it usually turns nasty.
This made me so mad because it makes all dog owners look bad. I am responsible with my dog and understand the frustration by residents about the dog crap all over. Its disgusting and beyond irresponsible.
I just had to vent about this as usually you see the aftermath but to see someone have no problem being such a poor neighbor and walking away from this mess really upset me.
With this said, please know there are some of us who follow the rules and are respectful with our pets.
@anon 10:11 PM Escape Stuy Town has a post about the complaints on the PCVST facebook page here.
"ownership can do whatever..they want "
This comment is beyond dumb. PCVST, for the hundred time, the ENTIRE project is currently under the NYS RS law.
I really want to own my apartment! Are the black flies and mold free or is there an extra charge? The only good thing about the college kids is they sell me pot.
I'm sick and tired of the "students" upstairs banging their feet on the floor and dropping things for hours. It's really making me sick.
I've lived in my apartment for 35 years and never had there once been ANY type of vibration or loud stomping UNTIL the 4-6 unrelated college kids move in December 2011. From December 2011 - now it's been a living hell. STOMP! Bang! DRAGGING CHAIRS! I don't live like this and my rent is high enough that I shouldn't have to put up with this nonsense.
The TA needs to address the problem of these students being crammed into units. Not only is this practice a fire hazard, but the level of disturbance to non-student tenants is totally unacceptable and a serious QOL issue. We need to get rid of these "dorms" and the sooner the better.
I was kept awake half the night (from 1:30 to 5:00 am) by the idiot students downstairs from me walking around in heels, dragging furniture and dropping things. Emails to Sean Sullivan and Legal Dept. have achieved a big fat NOTHING. Not even a response or acknowledgment of any kind. I wonder how long it would take them to wake up if I fail to send in my rent check?
It's friday night and it's party time (12am). I'm in the master bedroom now since the living room felt like an earthquake zone. BOOM! BANG! BOOM! The walls were shaking and I could feel the vibrations on my feet. No, I don't have a chair on the ceiling so needless to say this is WAY too much. BOOOOOM! Random screams! I don't live in San Fransisco so why am I being subjected to earthquake type settings here in New York City? I don't spilt the rent with 6-8 people so I feel I shouldnt have to put up with this crap. I called security 2 months ago but nothing has changed. Since I've lived here all my life and noise such as BOOM and VIBRATING CEILINGS AND WALLS has never been a problem...I have a serious problem living like this. What is being done about this? They're sooo loud I can hear every word they're screaming. How is that normal? It's driving me crazy. It's going to get to the point where i'm going to seriously go up there and kick someones' ass. Yes, it's that bad.
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