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Management has two priorities: 1) Making sure money is made, hence upgrading and filling up apartments is their goal. "Amenities" are important in selling the place, though few residents use them. 2) If someone needs medical attention, Public Safety will be there, if alerted.

Quality of life issues are not that important, however. They tend to be ignored, despite "the rules." So you will see a lot that isn't taken care of properly, and complaints will be met with a creative excuse and a smile.

"Peace and quiet" must be a cruel joke, though this property is sold that way. There can be no peace and quiet as ALL apartments must be upgraded, which includes the installation of an AC unit below the window. Aside from the continual construction about the neighborhood, there is a new and noisy subway extension being built along East 14 st and the shut down of the L line. "Choosing" to live in NYC, now the newest mantra, is a fabrication when the talk is of ST and PCV, which was traditionally quiet, with no construction noise.

Though money was always important, it is now more important than ever. Money rules many things, as you will find.

At this point, 30 years into living here and seeing many things, I can state that Management and their reps are BS-ing us. I can't say that loudly enough: We are being BS-ed. I don't see any genuine change. Sorry.

Sunday, March 30, 2014

Brookfield...and Another Property in Manhattan

To remind you, Brookfield has partnered with the TA to acquire, if possible, PCVST.

http://therealdeal.com/blog/2014/03/05/brookfield-eyes-stake-in-1b-manhattan-portfolio-sources/


83 comments:

Anonymous said...

You may recall some speculation a long while ago that Brookfield pockets were so deep, it would pay cash for STPCV on its own. Inference of this article is...I don't think so.

Anonymous said...

Real estate doesn't like to buy anything on its own--that's why Bagli's book is titled "Other People's Money."

Anonymous said...

Tishman Speyer (may they rot in hell) only put up about $150 million of the $5.6 billion purchase price for STPCV.

Anonymous said...

It was probably TA supporters who wanted everyone to believe that Brookfield was powerful enough to shoulder the entire cost on its own.

Anonymous said...

Maybe it's a good thing that this condo conversion isn't going to happen.

Anonymous said...

TS may have been better than current. REmember that.

Anonymous said...

I don't think anyone ever said or implied that Brookfield was going to foot the entire bill. Many tenants would buy their apartments (thereby putting up a chunk of the money), and Brookfield would finance (and profit from) the rest and get control of the commercial spaces. Now that I say that, it occurs to me that CW's increasing the commercial spaces inside the complex is another carrot to dangle in front of prospective buyers to drive the price up. I suppose Brookfield could also be the main buyer and bring in other financing--just as TS did.

Anonymous said...

First of all, there is going to be a sale. Various reports and all the sprucing up here indicate it. I can understand commenters here longing for the old days, but they're gone. Tishman-Speyer destroyed them. And yes, Brookfield is going to be like every other developer bidding. They will depend on a certain percentage buying and they will depend on outside financing. The TA tries to persuade that there's something special about Brookfield. There isn't. Bottom line, they're all alike.

Anonymous said...

Yes 7:50 and 10:56 which is precisely why a buyer as in any standard righteous real estate deal negotiates and does everything they can to keep the price down while a seller does everything they can to jack the price up.

Why aren't the buyers (TA et al) acting in the best interest of any tenant who would participate in the deal by doing everything possible to keep the price down?

The only losers will be tenants who participate in a deal where both the seller and the buyer have actively engaged in jacking up the price.

Buying a PCVST apartment is a losing proposition and a profit losing money pit.

It is set up to fail.

Anonymous said...

All I know is that I wouldn't buy an apartment with yapping dogs on one side of me, and bros & ho's on the other, and/or own a unit where the others around me are rentals where I don't know who's moving in or out day to day. Much better to live in a smaller scale where you can control what's happening around you. But I'm fortunate in that I have a choice, while many others do not. I agree that at this point, buying in will be a real pig in a poke.

Anonymous said...

Well renting here aint exactly smart either. There are probably now 5000+ Market rate apartments and growing every minute. That's 40K+ a year for every tenant.

No, you're wrong. I'm not paying MR, but If i were, i'd buy .

Anonymous said...

Well renting here aint exactly smart either. There are probably now 5000+ Market rate apartments and growing every minute. That's 40K+ a year for every tenant.

No, you're wrong. I'm not paying MR, but If i were, i'd buy .

Anonymous said...

At one of the TA meetings, a Brookfield representative stated that they were prepared to make an "all-cash offer" that would "make the bondholders whole."

FWIW, I have a relative who is real-estate attorney in New York who said that "all-cash" wasn't as meaningful as it sounded, and does not mean that they aren't going to get financing.

Anonymous said...

Remember...when the sale occurs, developers will be bidding against each other. I don't think the tenants in any shape or form have any leverage in this. However, what the winning developer decides to charge tenants to buy their apartments could be a different story.

Anonymous said...

How about Ps stop the homeless from digging through the garbages outside of PCV buildings almost daily now.

Eh? Gross, filthy and embarrassing. Especially when new potential tenants walked by yesterday! lmao

Anonymous said...

7 year old got a very large nerf gun for birthday.

We've been having huge issues from non carpeted tenants above. click click kitty heals and clogs, banging, running, dropping things.

7 yo now shooting darts (large) up at ceiling. I know the above tenants can hear and feel it.

Payback time....

Anonymous said...

"Why aren't the buyers (TA et al) acting in the best interest of any tenant who would participate in the deal by doing everything possible to keep the price down? "

What would you suggest? The TA already said that they want to allow nonbuyers to remain as RS tenants even if RS goes away. They talked about setting aside a certain number of apartments to remain truly affordable. I don't trust any RE operation, but the point of partnering with one is to get favorable concessions

One thing we can all do is make sure that CW spends as much money as possible to make necessary repairs and non-MCI improvements before a sale.

Anonymous said...

Who says the next buyer of this project will convert it to condos or coops? Why can't they keep it a rental. Please don't tell me the numbers don't add up. We're not talking about a 5.4 billion dollar mortgage anymore. Half the population here is market rate (and apparently there's no problem renting these units at those prices). Who says the next buyer just won't wait out dinosaurs like myself? They will be able to make the payments on a 3.5 billion dollar mortgage following that strategy. Of course, I'm always amazed that people pay market prices to live in this dump but that's another issue.

Anonymous said...

6:46...the lawful conditions of any non-eviction plan is that the RS units remain RS. You've been fooled by the TA if you think they negotiated anything there. Brookfield would just be following the law. BTW, I'm not a big supporter of the low income units. Maybe the TA board thinks this is good but they didn't ask the community. Brookfield's not in the giveaway business. Everyone else will have to pay more for what Brookfield loses on the low income units. Plus who gets those units, who decides? Sounds like a political game to me. I don't support it. TA has no business in all this. Stay out!

Anonymous said...

6:46 there is a big difference between "make necessary repairs and non-MCI improvements" and what CW is doing. They are not making necessary repairs. They are not making non MCI improvements. They are only making renovations that increase the purchase price.
I have no doubt many commenting could make long lists of what constitutes necessary repairs and non MCI improvements that are not being done. But we shouldn't in a blog they are trolling. They are deliberately not making them. And are trolling this blog so they can issue PR puff pieces to cover up what we call them out on.
If that is the TA strategy, to " make sure that CW spends as much money as possible to make necessary repairs and non-MCI improvements before a sale." then CW is laughing all the way to the bank.

Anonymous said...

"Who says the next buyer just won't wait out dinosaurs like myself?"

Some of us dinosaurs are only in our fifties and sixties, and even forties. That's a long timeline. Of course I'm willing to be bought out for, say, $2 mill.

Anonymous said...

12;23, what do you suggest?

Anonymous said...

"Some of us dinosaurs are only in our fifties and sixties, and even forties. That's a long timeline. Of course I'm willing to be bought out for, say, $2 mill."

I don't agree that that's a long timeline, especially for entrenched RE companies. By the way, I thought I was expensive but you beat me. I would leave for 1 mill. Actually I would freakin' run out of here for 1 mil. All they have to do is ask.

Anonymous said...

While remaining rental is a possibility, there are several reasons why it's not likely. Tishman-Speyer really set a false precedent by shooting for luxury rentals. The real estate market was booming then & it looked as if Manhattan with the support of Bloomberg was headed toward a rich-people-only island. That pace has slowed quite a bit. Also life expectancies are a variable. People are passing away into their 90s now. Turning over a lot of these apartments won't be sure a sure thing. In addition, massive amounts of money need to be raised to pay off the bondholders. Will all this come from private interests and no tenant buyers? On the other hand, if there is a conversion sale, the financing will be there and the amount of sure money to be made here within 20 years is huge, in the billions.

Anonymous said...

"I thought I was expensive but you beat me. I would leave for 1 mill. Actually I would freakin' run out of here for 1 mil. All they have to do is ask."

Don't lowball yourself! Think about the kind of place you'd like to move to and then add in the cost of moving, new furniture, construction (we don't need no stinkin' pressurized walls), appliances, etc. for the new digs. Hmm. Maybe $2 mill isn't enough. Back to the calculator.

Tommyboyardee said...

The very fact that the plight of PC\Stuy town has had very outrage within the media & politicians speaks volumes. CW Capitol has nearly sucked this place dry, time for a new parasite to make our lives intolerable.
There will be no 1 million dollar buyouts, your lead piped plumbing, plastered walled paradise, aged interstruction will eventually require newer costlier MCI upgrades. The Quality of life here is fast becoming a faded memory, much like the Oval.

Anonymous said...

I agree with 8:19. The property will remain as a rental.

Anonymous said...

"I agree with 8:19. The property will remain as a rental."

Well, ugh... 8:19 is making an argument for condo conversion, I think.....kind of......maybe.....

Anonymous said...

@10:24 You and the ghost of Robby Speyer are the only ones who think luxury rental will be a profitable post sale plan….

Anonymous said...

8:19 am making a point about property remaining rental

8:19 am.

pay attention boys

Anonymous said...



Itda. Keeping the property as a rental is and will continue to be profitable. People dying quadruples the rent roll on JUST one apartment----- quadruples monthly.

Quadruples - while paying no city and state tax on them. Nice eh?

Anonymous said...


More shady characters in the cast of a Cuomo NY State

http://nypost.com/2014/04/04/chobani-founder-swiped-recipe-from-rival-ex-wife/

This embezzler guy would rather admit to defrauding a bank just to screw his wife in a divorce.

Between this guy, Langone, Dimon, Speyer, NY needs to attract a higher standard of business leader.

NY business leaders are a global embarrassment.

NY needs a new Governor with a better class of business leaders.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2014/04/04/chobani-allegedly-stole-recipe.html

Anonymous said...

There is nothing luxury about this property. The apartments are old and the infrastructure is shot. The only two things that make renting here desirable are the spaciousness of the units and the grounds. The grounds are being systematically destroyed by CW, so that just leaves the spaciousness of the units and many of them are being made tenement-like with pressure walls, multiple room mates, etc.

Anonymous said...

I'm 8:19. I see us headed toward some kind of tenant conversion...condo or co-op.

Anonymous said...

If the place remains rental, tenant involvement ends. But if a conversion is offered, in addition to considering the price, people will have a lot of questions. Especially about possible maintenance costs and any environmental mitigation costs. That means we might like to see some unbiased reports. In any event we'll need some pro-tenant group to act as communication central to distribute information, collect money to pay for any reports, etc. The operative word is unbiased.

Anonymous said...

Isn't the property going to be taken out of rent stabilization (ending?) in any case in ten years or less????

THEN WHAT? OMH

Anonymous said...

Took a look at the First Ave construction site.
There is no way it will look anything remotely like the graphic design photo they tried to shove up our !!
Plus if that is the electric generator it is not in the photo and it is placed right up against the new children water sprinkler play area.

Stuy Town Reporter said...

>>Isn't the property going to be taken out of rent stabilization (ending?) in any case in ten years or less????<<

It will be voted in again.

Anonymous said...

The Rent Stabilization law expires in June 2015--a little more than a year from now. Yes, you read that right. Get ready to start fighting soon--we need to get changes that make the law friendlier to tenants.

For a start, how about removing MCIs from rent after they're paid off plus a reasonable amount for the cost of money to the landlord. How about not adding MCIs to the base rent so that they're not included in the amount on which increases are figured. How about extending the law for more than four years (which is what happened in 2011). How about abolishing Urstadt and returning control to the city.

For Roberts tenants, the J-51 expires in June 2020, which means those apartments will be deregulated (that's my understanding).

Anonymous said...

Rent stabilization law expires periodically . To date, it has been extended by State Legislature and Governor. Next expiration date is 2015 (I believe June).Those apartments which were market rate and became RS as a result of Roberts will become deregulated again when tax breaks expire in 2020. Also any additional apartments that would become deregulated (because of vacancy or high income deregulation)but for Roberts will also become deregulated at that time.

Anonymous said...

"Those apartments which were market rate and became RS as a result of Roberts will become deregulated again when tax breaks expire in 2020."

They're de facto unregulated now. What is the real relevance of these units being regulated? The legal rent is often higher than the market.

Anonymous said...

About 45%-50% of the units still have not been churned. For these units, rent stabilization counts a lot. Many of the units that have been churned or turned over just a little started at such a low base that the rents are still under market-rate. On the other hand, there are lots of other units that have been super-churned thanks to the student rentals. Greedy bastards at work.

Anonymous said...

12:08 -- tax break!

The landlord pays NO TAXES on all units at stuy and pcv via J51!

Nice gig eh? While collecting full and high rents on over 65% of the property now. And everyday this number increases.

Anonymous said...

"The landlord pays NO TAXES on all units at stuy and pcv via J51!

Nice gig eh? While collecting full and high rents on over 65% of the property now. And everyday this number increases."

Then why would they fight the re-regulation of these units?

Anonymous said...

11:34 no, wrong. They do not start at such a low rate. Where are you getting your facts from?

Every unit that's turned over gets a full fab renovation and our landlord then tacks on 2 to 3k to that rent. Tehre are no units here that are less than $3500 per month due to this.

There 's no low rate on renovated apartments.

Anonymous said...

If CW is going to sell this project, why do all this construction? People say it will increase the value of the property but is that not mitigated by all the money they're pouring into the construction?

Anonymous said...

Why would they fight the re-regulation?


wha??? WHY WOULDN'T THEY?

wouldn't you? lmao

Anonymous said...

Off topic.

Why does the fountain keep shutting down?

Runs for 10 minutes then off for about 10 minutes. All day long.

Been doing this since last summer. Nothing to do with the wind. Just wondering.

Anonymous said...

"They're de facto unregulated now. What is the real relevance of these units being regulated? "

Relevant or not, with RS you get a couple of things that don't apply to MR: You are guaranteed to be offered a lease renewal on the same terms (not so valuable if there's a big difference between your preferential rent and the legal rent). You are also guaranteed the right of succession, which may be important to some people.

Anonymous said...

The fountain has a system that shuts it off when it's windy. If you look behind the east benches you'll see an anemometer mounted on a post to measure wind speed. Given CW's stellar record, I'd guess it's not working properly.

Anonymous said...

4:16:
ALL UNITS AT STUY AND PC ARE STABILIZED.

oy. oy oy

Anonymous said...

All tenants are offered a renewal. Some are ridiculously high due to the 'legal ' rent on the unit, but they are stabilized apartments (ahem)
and guarantee to be renewed. The landlord cannot drop a tenant.

Anonymous said...




RUNNING KIDS IN HALLWAYS OF PETER COOPER FLATS.

Ok, Spring is here, it's nice out. Why are the kids playing baseball and football and riding scooters in hallways. Do the parents not give a rats ass about the people who live here and have to listen to the banging of walls and floors. ????? PLEASE POST, TELL US that you did not know there were 15 playgrounds outside your building.

Anonymous said...

Not every apartment is renovated when vacated. I don't know how they decide but 3 apartments opened up on my floor over the past 5 years and not one was renovated.

Anonymous said...

"RUNNING KIDS IN HALLWAYS OF PETER COOPER FLATS."

I deal with this by alternating with being the scary neighbor who pops out of the stairwell and tells the kids to go back inside and calling public safety. Another neighbor calls them as well.

Tommyboyardee said...

CW has there dream construction projects coupled with necessary wear & tear of this aging interstructure. As the manager they are obligated to keep up with the necessary repairs, their upgrades are directed towards attracting a buyer.
Let's not kid anyone, most of the sub-contractors have been created shortly after CW Management division, (they have just turned 2!) was created. They are certainly turned into the "gang that couldn't shoot straight" recently. Contaminated soil, Avenue C!, Oval Cafe, etc. The well is running dry, Middle America beckons for you, please good riddance.

Anonymous said...

I'm seeing this playing in the halls for the first time in my building too. The older leases specifically say that the halls aren't to be used for play. There should be some management-posted announcements about this.

Anonymous said...

OFF THE TOPIC, BUT, DOES ANYONE ELSE'S TV SCREEN GET FROZEN WHEN THEY WATCH THE YES NETWORK, YANKEES, USING TIME WARNER AS A PROVIDER?

Anonymous said...

10:58 then they were not re-rented by Management.

Anonymous said...

My kids are not allowed to play in the hallways here. WE'd been warned it's a lease violation, so we do not do it.

and ftr, it was a very threatening letter we got. And this landlord doesn't seem to kid friendly.

Anonymous said...



I'm also posting same here as 10:13 am. There should be some signs POSTED - LISTEN TO THIS CW regarding children playing in the hallways. We have kids and I would never let them either.

Anonymous said...



Off topic, but if there is no bike room, can we put bikes in the hallway?

there are stroller parked in hallways so bikes should be allowed as well. Please someone advise on bike storage.

Anonymous said...

Are there different kinds of renovations, some more extensive than others?

Anonymous said...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/laura-gottesdiener/when-predatory-equity-hit_b_5110461.html

Stuy Town PCV in the news. Telling it like it is all over NYC.

Anonymous said...

Sorry. I'm told the apartments I mentioned were renovated.

Anonymous said...

I just got some more junk mail shoved under my door from these bandits. Apparently "they learned" that UPS will no longer leave packages at the door without a signature. The inference being it behooves all of us to join "Oval Package Service" for $20 per month. I wonder how "they learned" this? I can't help but wonder of they perhaps asked UPS to not leave packages. I have always made it a point to not give any of these controllers of the project a penny more than my monthly rent (and I do that grudgingly). I will, of course, continue to not pay for any of their "luxury amenities."

Anonymous said...

"The older leases specifically say that the halls aren't to be used for play."

The new leases also have language prohibiting the abuse of hallways as play areas. In the sample management lease online, the first item in an attachment to the lease says in part:

PUBLIC AREAS: a. The lobbies,halls, passageways, stairwells, landings, elevators and other public and/or common areas of the Building (collectively, the "Common Areas") shall not be obstructed, used for children's play, loitering, or for any other purpose other than for entering or leaving the Apartment."

"this landlord doesn't seem to kid friendly"
This landlord has been renting to more families than in the past, at least in my PCV building. The problem is more the parents of children not being considerate of other tenants. I'm referring to leaving and/or storing strollers, bicycles, and play items in the hallways (violation of lease and fire regulations, not to mention unsightly), and the pounding of feet up and down hallways (half-hour soccer game, anyone?).

Not kid friendly? Where else do kids have access to so many playgrounds and open space?

Anonymous said...

Totally agree with Anony 11.47 AM. Objects left in the hall are fire hazards, tenants have the right to contact FDNY if management does not respond. For all you newbies, the hallways are NOT extensions of your rented apartment, legally or fire regulation wise, case closed. You are not in Suburbia anymore.

Anonymous said...

...if there is no bike room, can we put bikes in the hallway?

there are stroller parked in hallways so bikes should be allowed as well.


Neither bikes nor strollers are allowed in hallways. Neither is anything else. Whoever is leaving strollers in your hallway needs to be informed of this. It's illegal under the NYC fire code for good and obvious reason.

Anonymous said...

11:47 i'm saying the landlord does not want kids playing in the hallway. PEOPLE SEND YOUR KIDS TO THE PLAYGROUNDS we have. And i dont think management cares about strollers in the hallways since our hallway alone has 4 strollers parked in it. YES, 4. Been this way for a very long time now. So, I guess strollers ok eh CW?

Anonymous said...

To clarify: Absolutely nothing is supposed to be in the hallways, and that includes doormats, carriages, bikes, toys, garbage/recycling, umbrellas, shoes. It's against fire regulations to leave out anything that could present a hazard in case of emergency. Period. The hallway is not an extension of the apartment.

Package deliveries: Management has probably received complaints about packages being left in lobbies, which never used to happen. Some delivery services don't bring them to the door. It's more a question of taking responsibility for getting your packages out of the lobby than pushing Oval Concierge.

Anonymous said...

parks and playgrounds are not due to the current landlord. Watch them all fade away with new structures and stores.

Anonymous said...

" And i dont think management cares about strollers in the hallways since our hallway alone has 4 strollers parked in it."

Call PS.If no response, tweet FDNY.

Anonymous said...



Tweet FDNY? wow. not being snarky, but how?

Anonymous said...

I'm going to amend my 9 p.m. comment based on what I've read on the TA Facebook page. It does indeed look as though CW is pushing Oval Concierge on us. That said, I'm tired of my lobby looking like a package room, including a parcel that should have been delivered to several buildings east. Who knows when the delivery service will be back to correct the mistake. In the meantime, the package sits in my lobby.

Anonymous said...

"' And i dont think management cares about strollers in the hallways since our hallway alone has 4 strollers parked in it.'

Call PS.If no response, tweet FDNY."

Take a picture and email it to the head of PS.

Anonymous said...

Yes, the lobby is looking like a warehouse. It's really unsightly & a fire hazard. On many days there are boxes piled up under the mailboxes & we are unable to get to the mailboxes because of the boxes. We then wind up moving these boxes- just to get our mail. It's a workout. This place is in such bad shape that no one would buy it. They need rules & they need to publicize theses rules & enforce them. Bicycles, strollers in hallways. Never - but seeing more & more of that. Shoes, umbrellas, boots. Why should we have to look at their crap??? Bring it into your apartment. Looks sooo nice when you have guests !!

Anonymous said...

"Tweet FDNY? wow. not being snarky, but how?"

If you are on Twitter (free, BTW), it's easy.

https://twitter.com/FDNY

Anonymous said...



10:37, I wish you were right, but you could not be more wrong. There will be multiple bids and it will be in the billions again, probably more than TS.

It's not about the messy lobbies or the old buidlings, duh, the land is worth more than you can dream or imagine. Know this.

Stuy Town Reporter said...

>>It's not about the messy lobbies or the old buidlings, duh, the land is worth more than you can dream or imagine.<<

Absolutely. That's why it's almost certain that in some future these buildings are going down to be replaced by a modern high-rise,non-affordable housing PCVST.

Anonymous said...

"Absolutely. That's why it's almost certain that in some future these buildings are going down to be replaced by a modern high-rise,non-affordable housing PCVST."

I think they will have to re-house the longtime tenants or buy them out. They can't just toss elderly people to the curb, no matter how much they would love to.

Anonymous said...

"Absolutely. That's why it's almost certain that in some future these buildings are going down to be replaced by a modern high-rise,non-affordable housing PCVST."

But STR, what are they going to do about people like us? Real R/S people. Buy out? Not everyone would take it.

Stuy Town Reporter said...

>>But STR, what are they going to do about people like us? Real R/S people. Buy out? Not everyone would take it.<<

Eminent domain was once used in this neighborhood to make way for the building of PCVST. That would be a final, final resort, but I think a buy-out program, as well as moving stubborn tenants to other parts of PCVST that will not be razed until a later time would be the way it could be done.

The process would be gradual, a chunk of PCVST at a time, perhaps a building at a time. This would mandate a long-term commitment from a future owner of the complex and would be dependent on the economy, probably the world economy if we will see foreign money come into this place.